Designing the Perfect D&D

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

(One thing- in this system there is no "roll to confirm critical".)

That was more of a, "Think back to all the games in which you played 3E; now, think of how often you saw your friend score a crit with his greataxe; that's how often this issue will come up."

In other words, just a bit of flavor to provide some more concrete grounding for the math.

Gary Sarli had a great post on this sort of thing back on the WotC Star Wars board, which started from a question on "How likely should a ruleset make what happens on-screen happen at the table?"

 

[jmucchiello]

Adding an additional Fighter level (F4/DP3; +3d10% Str) gives you 99% odds to have achieved a +1 bump, but in a still-high ~2% of cases (e.g., about as often as you'll see a confirmed greataxe critical*), one of the characters is stil behind the other. (Roughly 2 guys on Long Island've got a +2 to their Strength, assuming everyone there was playing.)

Is this really important at all in a system where you ROLL you stats? Luck is required in this system for hit points, ability scores, etc. So be it.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Is this really important at all in a system where you ROLL you stats?

Absolutely.

Because all that does it make it more likely to have someone end up as a guy who rolled poorly on his stat rolls and then rolls poorly on his stat advancement rolls, putting him even further behind the norm.

That, to my mind, would tend to encourage a certain ... recklessness? ... with the character, and I'm not sure an "Act suicidal and hope for better in the next life" approach is in line with the OP's goals. If it is, well, then, he's at least going in eyes wide open.

 

[baradtgnome]

Critical hits without confirmation give more weight to less powerful creatures that only crit on a natural 20. As pointed out, it does not happen often, but if you give a large group of otherwise not very threatening monsters a weapon that does high damage on a critical it can skew the chance of an unexpected result. Not saying this is a huge problem, just something that should be recognized.

 

[monboesen]

Absolutely.

Because all that does it make it more likely to have someone end up as a guy who rolled poorly on his stat rolls and then rolls poorly on his stat advancement rolls, putting him even further behind the norm.

But it should be noted that the actual ability scores have very little impact on the combat math in Jesters system. In fact if you take two fighters and one has Str 14 and the other Str 18 at level 1 there will never be any difference in their attack and damage bonus.

In fact the only thing the stats really effect are defenses and even then the variation will likely be limited to 1-2 points.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Combat stats and skills - and this ruleset looks like it's putting more weight on skill rolls, which are a roll-under system, so one or two points in your key stats can be a big difference.

 

[NoWayJose]

Would you consider starting a campaign at 2nd level, simply so that players can begin as an 'advanced' prestige character? Gameplay-wise, it could be easier to allow initial training to encompass 2 levels and begin as a druid, monk, etc., compared to adventuring once at 1st level, taking a druidic or monkish sabbatical for 2nd level, then rejoining the group. Because if many players are seeking a prestige class at 2nd level, then roleplaying at 1st level will feel more like a prequel, and maybe that prequel adventure could/should be optional?

For what's worth, I think I answered my own question on this thread: www.enworld.org/forum/columns/300958-baby-steps-2.html

Jester's D&D Jazz on the Perfect D&D thread is a nod in that direction. He starts off with 4 base classes at 1st level, and then work your way to prestige classes (in his version, includes Monk, Druid, etc.) at 2nd level or higher.

What if a 5E Basic Red Box was, fictionaly, a teen's adventure. Your PCs start off at something like 15 years of age as one of 4 base classes and work their way up to a fully fledged 'adult' class in time for the next box set. The playstyle is about finding out who you are and growing into what you can become. This might also appeal to newbies who happen to be teenagers. And, fictionally, it's not so strange when you think of all the origin stories that start off earlier in a paragon's life. And in medieval times, you could get be married or apprenticed or squired at 13, no?

So to clarify, the emphasis is not on offering choices of easy classes and complex classes in parallel. In the Red Box, everyone starts off with an easy class and there are less rules, because you're roleplaying a younger hero with a smaller simpler skillset. If that's not for you, then you don't need to buy the Red Box, which is simply optional.

 

[the Jester]

Thanks for the nod over there!

For the record, I went on a road trip over the last few days and while I was hanging out with my old group (with one of the guys from my current group coming along for the ride) we played a (very) quick playtest.

The party had:
one fighter (cha-based, light weapon focused)
two clerics
two rogues (one weapon and cloak, the other- er, maybe focused on throwing weapons)
two wizards

It took about 10 minutes for each person to make their character, but since we were all partying and people were wandering in and out of the gaming zone, not all of them were made at the same time (there was probably about 30 minutes total of character creation).

Once everyone made their character, I had everyone roll a d20 and the high roller advanced to 6th level (it was a wizard). This took about 5 more minutes- excellent, character creation and advancement is fast and sassy! Even when you're drunk!

We only played one encounter; I think we lost one player to a home emergency before we got there, so we were short a rogue. The combat was vs. 10 kobolds.

The pcs won, not handily, but it wasn't a super close thing either.

Overall, things went about like I expected and wanted. It was fast- the combat prolly took 15-20 minutes to play out, even using a battlemat.

One thing that Bill (the 6th level wizard) pointed out is that of the schools I've worked out so far- none of them rely on intelligence! Err, whoops... I need to add enough to have good options for each stat (I know that Illusion will key off of Intelligence, for instance).

Anyway: Cool. Fast. Fun. Sassy. Good start. I left a printout of everything with one of the other guys who dms down there, so maybe they'll play some more of it, I dunno.

 

[the Jester]

MIMIC

Mimic
Medium beast 2nd level brute/4th level controller
Hit Dice: 2d10+2d8+15 (35 hp); AC: 16
Resist 10 acid
Melee: +3; Fort: 21
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 11
Spell: +0; Will: 14

Perceptions -
Initiative +0 (see also surprise!); Speed 15'
Languages 50% chance of Common

Str 18, Int 4, Wis 13, Dex 3, Con 15, Cha 10

TRAITS
Mimic: A mimic gains a +4 bonus to AC and Fortitude. It can change its shape to that of an inanimate object (stereotypically a chest). When mimicing an object, it requires a Wisdom check on 5d6 to realize a mimic's true nature.

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Surprise!: When a creature touches a mimic without being aware of its nature, the creature becomes stuck to the mimic and immobilized (save ends on a 17+) and the mimic makes two bash attacks against it as a free action.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Bash: +3 vs. AC; 1d6 damage. If the target is stuck to the mimic, the mimic gets a +4 bonus to the attack roll.

MINOR ACTIONS
Sticky Bits: +3 vs. Reflex; the target is stuck to the mimic and immoblized (save ends on a 17+).


OGRE

Ogre
Large humanoid 4th level brute (ogre)
Hit Dice: 4d10+46 (68 hp); AC: 14
Melee: +2; Fort: 21
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 13
Spell: +0; Will: 12

Perceptions: Darkvision
Initiative -1; Speed 25'
Languages Orcish, Giant

Str 19, Int 5, Wis 8, Dex 9, Con 18, Cha 7

TRAITS
Ogrish Might: Ogres receive a +4 bonus to melee damage and AC but have a -1 penalty to initiative.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Large club: +3 vs. AC; 2d4+4 damage.

Skill Bonuses +4 to skill checks involving athletics or endurance
Equipment large club, thick hides

Ogre Berserker
Large humanoid 4th level brute/1st level berserker (humanoid. ogre)
Hit Dice: 4d10+46 (68 hp); AC: 14
Melee: +2; Fort: 20
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 13
Spell: +0; Will: 12

Perceptions: Darkvision
Initiative -1; Speed 25'
Languages Orcish, Giant

Str 19, Int 5, Wis 8, Dex 9, Con 18, Cha 7

TRAITS
Ogrish Might: Ogres receive a +4 bonus to melee damage and AC.
Rage Stance: Must be wounded. The ogre gains 18 temporary hit points and grants combat advantage. On each turn, it must attack an enemy; if it cannot, it must double move towards the closest visible enemy. Cannot end this stance if an enemy is in sight. If no enemy is in sight at the end of the ogre beserker's turn, it may make a save (10+) to end the stance. On a 5 or lower, on its next turn it instead attacks or charges the nearest creature.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Large club: +3 vs. AC (reach 2); 2d4+4 damage.

Skill Bonuses +4 to skill checks involving athletics or endurance
Equipment large club, thick hides

OOZE

Gray Ooze
Medium ooze 3rd level brute
Hit Dice: 3d10+20 (36 hp); AC: 10
Resist 10 acid, 10 piercing, 10 poison, 5 slashing (see also corrosive fluids)
Melee: +2; Fort: 18
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 11
Spell: +0; Will: 12

Perceptions Tremorsense 100' (blind)
Initiative -1; Speed 30', climb 20'
Languages -

Str 16, Int 1, Wis 7, Dex 4, Con 15, Cha 1

TRAITS
Ooze: An ooze cannot be flanked or knocked prone but has a -1 penalty to initiative.

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Corrosive Fluids: Trigger: A weapon or natural weapon hits the ooze. Effect: The ooze makes the following attack against the wielder of the weapon: +2 vs. Reflex; Hit: The weapon is destroyed. If it was a natural weapon, the creature instead takes 1d6 acid damage.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Caustic Pseudopod: +2 vs. Reflex; 1d6 acid damage.


Green Slime
Medium ooze 4th level controller (plant)
Hit Dice: 2d8+4 (13 hp); AC: 10
Immunity bludgeoning, force, piercing, slashing (see also slimy doom)
Vulnerability fire 5, radiant 5
Melee: +2; Fort: 16
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 10
Spell: +0; Will: 13

Perceptions: Tremorsense 60' (blind)
Initiative -1; Speed 10'
Languages -

Str 1, Int 1, Wis 10, Dex 1, Con 13, Cha 1

TRAITS
Ooze: An ooze cannot be flanked or knocked prone but has a -1 penalty to initiative.
Slimy: A slime cannot be maneuvered, pushed or pulled. It is almost impossible to notice before it acts, gaining surprise unless an enemy makes a Wisdom check on 5d6 to perceive it.

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Slimy Doom: Trigger: An enemy touches the slime, including hitting it with a melee attack. Effect: The creature touching the slime takes ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends on a 14+). If the target takes fire damage, this ongoing damage ends.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Drip: The green slime must be undetected on the ceiling above the target. +6 vs. Reflex; on a hit, the green slime moves into the target's square and the target takes 2d6 acid damage and is immobilized and takes ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends both on a 14+). As long as the target is taking this ongoing damage, the green slime is stuck to it and shares its space, moving with the target. If the target takes fire damage, the ongoing damage ends and the green slime shifts to the nearest unoccupied square..
Slimy Touch: +2 vs. Reflex; 1d6 acid damage plus ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends on a 14+). If the target takes fire damage, this ongoing damage ends.



Gelatinous Cube
Large ooze 6th level controller
Hit Dice: 3d8+6 (19 hp); AC: 10
Resist bludgeoning 10, piercing 10, slashing 10
Melee: +3; Fort: 19
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 10
Spell: +0; Will: 13

Perceptions Tremorsense 100' (blind)
Initiative -1; Speed 20'
Languages -

Str 20, Int 1, Wis 10, Dex 1, Con 18, Cha 3

TRAITS
Ooze: An ooze cannot be flanked or knocked prone but has a -1 penalty to initiative.
Transparent: A gelatinous cube is almost impossible to spot before you know it is there. It requires a Wisdom check on 3d10 to notice the cube before contacting it (see engulf).

FULL ACTIONS
Engulf (recharges on an 11+): The cube attacks up to two creatures that are medium or smaller: +3 vs. Reflex; 1d4 acid damage and the target is drawn into the cube and paralyzed (save ends on a 16+). The cube cannot hold more creatures than will fill its space. Each engulfed creature takes ongoing 5 acid damage until they escape the cube.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Touch: +3 vs. Reflex; 1d4 acid damage.

 

[the Jester]

ORC

Orc
Medium humanoid 1st level soldier (orc)
Hit Dice: 1d8+4 (8 hp); AC: 18
Melee: +1; Fort: 14
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 13
Spell: +0; Will:12

Perceptions: Lowlight vision
Initiative +0; Speed 25'
Languages Orcish, Common

Str 14, Int 8, Wis 8, Dex 10, Con 12, Cha 8

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Warrior's Surge: Trigger: The orc drops. Effect: The orc makes a longsword attack as a free action.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Longsword: +4 vs. AC; 1d8+1/19-20 damage.

Equipment scale mail, heavy shield, cap, longsword

Ogrillion (Half-Ogre, Half-Orc)
Medium humanoid 1st level soldier/1st level brute (ogre, orc)
Hit Dice: 1d8+1d10+9 (19 hp); AC: 15
Melee: +2; Fort: 15
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 13
Spell: +0; Will:12

Perceptions: Lowlight vision
Initiative +0; Speed 25'
Languages Orcish, Common

Str 17, Int 7, Wis 7, Dex 10, Con 14, Cha 8

TRAITS
Masher: The ogrillion gets +2 to melee damage.
Thick Skin: An ogrillion gets a +4 bonus to AC.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Maul: +5 vs. AC; 1d10+2 damage.
Crushing Blow (recharges on a 16+): +5 vs. AC; 1d10+2 damage and the target is pushed 15' and knocked prone.

Equipment thick hides, maul

Orc Champion
Medium humanoid 5th level soldier (orc)
Hit Dice: 5d8+4 (26 hp); AC: 21
Melee: +3; Fort: 15
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 13
Spell: +0; Will:12

Perceptions: Lowlight vision
Initiative +0; Speed 25'
Languages Orcish, Common

Str 17, Int 8, Wis 10, Dex 10, Con 12, Cha 8

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Warrior's Surge: Trigger: The orc drops. Effect: The orc makes a longsword attack as a reaction.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Longsword: +8 vs. AC; 1d8+3/19-20 damage.
Power Attack (recharges on a 12+): The orc champion makes a longsword attack for double damage.

Equipment scale mail, heavy shield, cap, longsword

OWLBEAR

Owlbear
Large beast 5th level brute
Hit Dice: 5d10+30 (63 hp); AC: 14
Melee: +3; Fort: 20
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 16
Spell: +0; Will: 15

Perceptions: Lowlight vision
Initiative +0; Speed 35'
Languages -

Str 20, Int 3, Wis 15, Dex 13, Con 16, Cha 10

TRAITS
Owlbear's Fierceness: Owlbears get a +3 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to Reflex, melee attacks and melee damage.

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Terrifying Screech (fear): Trigger: The owlbear becomes bloodied; recharges when the owlbear rests. The owlbear makes an attack in a 20' blast: +0 vs. Will; Hit: The target suffers a -2 penalty to attacks until the end of the next round.

FULL ACTIONS
Claws: The owlbear makes two claw attacks. If both hit the same target, the owlbear hugs the target: +5 vs. Fortitude; Hit: The target is grabbed and cannot move from its

STANDARD ACTIONS
Claw: +5 vs. AC; 1d8+2 damage.
Bite: The owlbear must have the target grabbed; +5 vs. AC; 2d4+2/x3 damage.

RAT

GIANT RAT
Tiny beast 1st level skirmisher
Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp); AC: 14
Melee: +0; Fort: 15
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 16
Spell: +0; Will: 14

Perceptions: Lowlight vision, scent
Initiative +0; Speed 30', climb 15', swim 20'
Languages -

Str 4, Int 2, Wis 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Cha 8

TRAITS
Filth Dweller: The giant rat gets a +2 bonus to defenses and saving throws against poison and disease.
Tiny: The giant rat doesn't get a bonus kicker of 1/3 its Constitution, but it gets a +2 bonus to AC.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Bite: +0 vs. AC; 1d3 damage plus make a secondary attack: +0 vs. Fortitude; the target contracts filth fever.
---Filth Fever: Each day the disease makes an attack against the victim: +2 vs. Fortitude; on a hit, the target takes 1d3 Strength and Constitution damage. If the disease misses three days in a row, the victim recovers.

DIRE RAT
Small beast 2nd level skirmisher
Hit Dice: 1d6+5 (8 hp); AC: 12
Melee: +1; Fort: 15
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 16
Spell: +0; Will: 14

Perceptions: Lowlight vision, scent
Initiative +0; Speed 30', climb 15', swim 20'
Languages -

Str 4, Int 2, Wis 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Cha 8

TRAITS
Filth Dweller: The giant rat gets a +2 bonus to defenses and saving throws against poison and disease.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Bite: +1 vs. AC; 1d4 damage plus make a secondary attack: +1 vs. Fortitude; the target contracts filth fever.
---Filth Fever: Each day the disease makes an attack against the victim: +2 vs. Fortitude; on a hit, the target takes 1d3 Strength and Constitution damage. If the disease misses three days in a row, the victim recovers.

RAT SWARM
Medium beast 4th level skirmisher (swarm)
Hit Dice: 2d6+5 (12 hp) (see swarm); AC: 12
Melee: +2; Fort: 15
Ranged: +0; Reflex: 17
Spell: +0; Will: 14

Perceptions: Lowlight vision, scent
Initiative +0; Speed 30', climb 15', swim 20'
Languages -

Str 4, Int 2, Wis 13, Dex 17, Con 15, Cha 8

TRAITS
Filth Dweller: The rat swarm gets a +2 bonus to defenses and saving throws against poison and disease.
Swarm: A swarm takes half damage from single-target attacks and double damage from area or close attacks.

TRIGGERED ACTIONS
Swarm Attack: Trigger: An enemy starts its turn adjacent to the swarm. Effect: The swarm makes a swarm of rats attack at the target.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Swarm of Rats: Targets one or two creatures; +2 vs. AC; 1d6 damage plus ongoing 2 damage (save ends on a 10+).

MOVE ACTIONS
Carpet of Rats: The rat swarm moves its speed. It gains combat advantage on any creatures that it ends adjacent to until the end of the round.