Detect Magic is Dead

[Fifth Element]

Unless you're old... Then first you would be scared to do anythign with it, and then despite the fact that what you did seemed to actually make it work, you'd flip out and start acting like you might have just broken it...

"By the gods! What do I do??? Did I break it??? Help me!!!!"

"Dad, it's fine... just press this rune to make it shhot a fireball..."

"How in the name of Bahamut did you know how to do that? Kids these days..."

"Dad did you even bother reading the rune?"

"What rune?"

"The one that poped up on the side there!"

"No, a rune popped up so I thought I did something wrong."

"Thats the rune that tells you how to fire the fireball!"

"Sorry... I didn't read it!"

"Why not???"

"Because I thought I broke it..."

"I- oye... nevermind... just give me the wand next time. I'll make it work,..."

Definitely a thread-winner. Well done.

 

[2eBladeSinger]

The identification of magic items would seem to have a new philosophy: It can be as easy or as difficult as the DM would like it to be. There is no longer an inflexible rule: a wizard uses detect magic then identify = items full capabilities known in most cases. To those who say it ‘ruins the mystery of magic items’ I would say hogwash. What ruined the ‘mystery’ of magic items was having a catch all spell, available at first level and which had to be used to decipher the capabilities of even the most elementary item. This new direction seems far superior. In my own interpretation – the DM can allow simple (i.e. lower level) items to be identified routinely or with the use of Knowledge: Arcana, saving game time for more interesting, less rudimentary activities. Superior (i.e. higher level items ) may take time, investigations, rituals or quests to identify properly, and again, it seems that, that is at the discretion of the DM. It’s more flexible, more dramatic and more fitting of the fantasy genre.

And yes, Scribble, well said.

 

[Scribble]

Which came first...

The assumption that magic should be hard to identify gave rise to identify, or the fact that identify existed gave rise to the idea that magic should be hard to identify?

I mean I've read countless books and seen movies where the people who pick up magic items just know they're magic.

Hey it's magic... why can't it have some sort of magic feeling? Like putting your hand near a heavy source of Electro Magnetic Energy... (Walk under a high tension power line sometime and you'll knwo what I mean if you don't already)

Do they really have to DO something to identify the magic? Maybe it's just the act of relaxing and realizing you just know what it does, cause, well... it's magic!

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Just a side note, I'm not quite clear on why warriors who are high level enough wouldn't be able to grasp magic. They've certainly been around and fighting it long enough.

"...Fire and earth."
"Whassat?"
"That mage over there, he's channeling fire and earth. Get ready for a blast and he'll be covering himself."
"How the hell would you know something like that?"
"Listen pup, I've been fighting and killing mages longer then you've been alive. I can smell the magic on them at this point, and after living through more fireballs then your whole family could ever cook up, I know one building when I see it."

 

[2eBladeSinger]

Do they really have to DO something to identify the magic? Maybe it's just the act of relaxing and realizing you just know what it does, cause, well... it's magic!

Someone a long time ago decided that to understand how to use a magic item one needed an owl feather and a pearl. For some, this is a tradition of which they are unwilling to let go. Thank goodness that the somantic component of magic missile wasn't the wizard standing on his head and howling like a randy baboon to unleash the crackling energy.

 

[Scribble]

Just a side note, I'm not quite clear on why warriors who are high level enough wouldn't be able to grasp magic. They've certainly been around and fighting it long enough.

"...Fire and earth."
"Whassat?"
"That mage over there, he's channeling fire and earth. Get ready for a blast and he'll be covering himself."
"How the hell would you know something like that?"
"Listen pup, I've been fighting and killing mages longer then you've been alive. I can smell the magic on them at this point, and after living through more fireballs then your whole family could ever cook up, I know one building when I see it."

dude... you totally wasted some skill points cross classing in knowledge arcana like that...

 

[ProfessorCirno]

dude... you totally wasted some skill points cross classing in knowledge arcana like that...

One of my big complaints on 3.x was the near inanity in which some classes were given skills and others weren't, and many times they seemed to have been chosen at random. So paladins can't balance themselves, but they can ride horses? Why, exactly, do fighters find reasonable discourse to be so difficult? And how come nobody in the world except maybe two rogues who rolled REALLY high on int can comprehend that this diamond is worth more then that generic stone cobble?

Unfortunately, it seems 4e hasn't done away with this. Oh well, some precise houserulings covered last game, the same will have to do for this one.

 

[Scribble]

One of my big complaints on 3.x was the near inanity in which some classes were given skills and others weren't, and many times they seemed to have been chosen at random. So paladins can't balance themselves, but they can ride horses? Why, exactly, do fighters find reasonable discourse to be so difficult? And how come nobody in the world except maybe two rogues who rolled REALLY high on int can comprehend that this diamond is worth more then that generic stone cobble?

Unfortunately, it seems 4e hasn't done away with this. Oh well, some precise houserulings covered last game, the same will have to do for this one.

This is so totally easy to explain.

1. Paladins are unbalanced top heavy because their brain is full up with one sided all how to do good all the time stuff. They can ride horses because well, so many people get so annoyed with the constant goody goodyness that they exclaim "Screw you and the horse you rode in on!" no horse... paradox, world would implode. Thus... horse skill.

2. Fighter smash! duh...

3. Because the stone coble might actually be magic... and only wizards can detect magic.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

The identification of magic items would seem to have a new philosophy: It can be as easy or as difficult as the DM would like it to be. There is no longer an inflexible rule: a wizard uses detect magic then identify = items full capabilities known in most cases. To those who say it ‘ruins the mystery of magic items’ I would say hogwash. What ruined the ‘mystery’ of magic items was having a catch all spell, available at first level and which had to be used to decipher the capabilities of even the most elementary item. This new direction seems far superior. In my own interpretation – the DM can allow simple (i.e. lower level) items to be identified routinely or with the use of Knowledge: Arcana, saving game time for more interesting, less rudimentary activities. Superior (i.e. higher level items ) may take time, investigations, rituals or quests to identify properly, and again, it seems that, that is at the discretion of the DM. It’s more flexible, more dramatic and more fitting of the fantasy genre.

QFT Identify is dead and good riddance. Now if I was (as DM) I can make it a quest, a skill-challenge, a single skill-check, or JUST TELL THEM, depending on which I feel suits the story best. It's about time.

Fitz

 

[djdaidouji]

We seem to be placing magic items in a catch all category. I think of them as unique items, each of them.
Some examples. A +5 flaming burst sword was made for a very stupid, but heroic warrior. So on the hilt, it says in Common "YELL FIRE TO MAKE IT EXPLODE." You don't even have to spend a rest looking at it.
A humble +1 acidic dagger was actually made for an assassin, meant to look like an ordinary letter opener. There are no runes on it, no designs, nothing telling what is is though to the touch, you get a certain magical feeling. Nothing other then an identify spell can tell what it is, though with knowledge of historical assassinations, one may be able to recognize it as Assassander's Dagger, famously used to kill off King Examplar of Thiscountria.
It all depends on the item in question.