Detect Magic is Dead

[Byronic]

Perhaps they should all roll Arcana. Available once per day per item (since if they don't remember anything straight away they might need a night to think it over).

Identify is no longer the purview of the Wizard, other classes can do it as well. Wizards have a slight advantage (all having +5 in Arcane because of their class) but every class can do it.

Don't forget level bonuses. And you can always add situational bonuses (for example someone with Dwarven weapon Training might add +2 to identifying a hammer since he probably researched them a lot while training for the feat)

 

[drjones]

I think unless the world is low magic it might be reasonable to assume that those in the adventurer/treasure gathering trade might be more knowledgable about magic and items even if they are not professional wizards, especially after the first few levels.

 

[Scribble]

That's actually quite an interesting comparison, one that lends itself to the 4e method of thinking actually.

Pretend you've never seen an iPod. Suddenly you're given an iPod with earbuds. You clearly recognize the "Menu" label at the top so you press it. The screen lights up and displays runes you've never seen, but one of them (||) is also on the bottom of the control panel (the play/pause button). You hit that button and noise begins to come from the earbuds - you'd probably hear something even if you didn't have them in your ears. So within a minute you've discovered that the earbuds are supposed to go into your ears, the iPod plays music, and you know how to start and stop the music. Another couple minutes of experimenting and I'm betting you've got 90% of the iPod's controls under your grasp.

I wouldn't understand the digital-to-analog conversion, the power source, or in what form the MP3s are stored, but I'd know how to use the item for its intended effect. And that's all you have to know for usage.

Unless you're old... Then first you would be scared to do anythign with it, and then despite the fact that what you did seemed to actually make it work, you'd flip out and start acting like you might have just broken it...

"By the gods! What do I do??? Did I break it??? Help me!!!!"

"Dad, it's fine... just press this rune to make it shhot a fireball..."

"How in the name of Bahamut did you know how to do that? Kids these days..."

"Dad did you even bother reading the rune?"

"What rune?"

"The one that poped up on the side there!"

"No, a rune popped up so I thought I did something wrong."

"Thats the rune that tells you how to fire the fireball!"

"Sorry... I didn't read it!"

"Why not???"

"Because I thought I broke it..."

"I- oye... nevermind... just give me the wand next time. I'll make it work,..."

 

[malraux]

Unless you're old... Then first you would be scared to do anythign with it, and then despite the fact that what you did seemed to actually make it work, you'd flip out and start acting like you might have just broken it...

"By the gods! What do I do??? Did I break it??? Help me!!!!"

"Dad, it's fine... just press this rune to make it shhot a fireball..."

"How in the name of Bahamut did you know how to do that? Kids these days..."

"Dad did you even bother reading the rune?"

"What rune?"

"The one that poped up on the side there!"

"No, a rune popped up so I thought I did something wrong."

"Thats the rune that tells you how to fire the fireball!"

"Sorry... I didn't read it!"

"Why not???"

"Because I thought I broke it..."

"I- oye... nevermind... just give me the wand next time. I'll make it work,..."

This thread, you've won it.

 

[DM_Blake]

I am very much on board with most of this.

But, not all magic items are easily identified, even by the exact role/power source they are inteded for.

I firmly believe that a fighter could pick up a +1 blade, swish it around for a bit, hit a few trees, note how well-balanced it is, see how deeply it cuts, and very quickly surmise that it is a +1 blade.

If that sword can also burst into fire, it might be harder for the fighter to determine this fact.

Sure, some artificers (no, not talking Eberron, I'm using the term more broadly) might etch the sword with fancy flame designs and make it triggered by the wielder simply thinking about fire (which he will do when he looks at the flame designs) - even a child will figure this out in no time.

But other artificers might deliberately not carve distinctive symbols on the blade, might make no distinguishing marks at all. And they might require a command word, or phrase, to activate the flames. And, because they don't want their blade to be misused if it falls into enemy hands, they will pick a command word that is not obvious (i.e. it won't be the ancient dwarven word for fire).

Now how would the fighter figure out the fire properties of such a blade in a short rest?

Or consider a plain copper ring that grants wishes on command - with a command word so obscure that the guy who made the ring won't even remember it.

Or consider a magic wand, that looks like a foot-long twig broken off of a tree branch. No runes, no carvings, just a stick.

This is where Identify, or Analyze Dweomer, or Bardic Knowledge (et. al.) would come into play.

I know, the article did mention that not every item is easily identified. In 3 weeks we will find out if they meant stuff like I described, or if they meant something more special, like artifacts/relics.

I hope they meant both.

 

[DM_Blake]

I think unless the world is low magic it might be reasonable to assume that those in the adventurer/treasure gathering trade might be more knowledgable about magic and items even if they are not professional wizards, especially after the first few levels.

You might have that backward.

In a very low magic world, say, one where only a dozen magic items have ever existed, people will have heard of most of them. If they should stumble upon them in their travels, they would instantly recognize them. Just like you might recognize the Eiffel Tower if you happened to travel to Paris and see it.

In a world that is still low-magic, but one where every famous super hero probably has one or two items, many of those would still be legendary and easy to recognize by anyone steeped in the lore (though some items might be fairly obsure).

In a world where magic is much more common, where every two-bit hero has a dozen magic items and every superhero has a treasury full of magic itesm, there are potentially millions of magic items in the world. Nobody can know of all of them. There could be literally a million +1 swords, and most of them look very much like each other, or like other ordinary swords, or maybe even look like +2 swords. No way anyone would be able to tell those swords apart easily.

Of course, in that world, people would strive to find ways to identify the magical properties of items. Every street merchant would have a magical spyglass he could use to scan an item and determine its properties, and adventurers would be hauling such items into dungeons with them to identify stuff on the spot.

D&D generally falls somewhere between those low-magic settings and that common-magic example. Still too many items for even the most astute sage to recognize all of them, but certainly the flashy items, or legendary items, or even trademark items (the Red Cloaks of the Scarlet Brotherhood), might be easily recognized by the well-educated.

For the rest of the stuff, clever adventurers have general knowledge about many types of enchantments on items, and have simple means to divine typical powers, such as the jumping/running/climbing/water walking tricks to figure out a pair of boots.

 

[JVisgaitis]

Why? Swords aren't a mage's speciality.

Its a "magic" sword. Wizards know magic. I'm not saying the Wizard knows how to use the sword or anything like that, he knows what the magic in it is and does.

You're simply trapped in the old out-dated mindset of D&D veryoldandpoorlybalancededition. Let it go. It makes things easier, and more fun for the players.

So much for having an intelligent conversation on something. What a cop out. Blame it all on my prejudice. Whatever...

That's actually quite an interesting comparison, one that lends itself to the 4e method of thinking actually.

Pretend you've never seen an iPod.

I said complicated software or electronic equipment. It's an iPod made by Apple and they make their money on easy and intuitive devices. Think, I dunno, a Zune that Microsoft tried to create like 10 years ago...

Unfortunately, that means a wizard class is required for each adventuring party, which sucks rocks.

Yeah, that would suck.

 

[baberg]

I said complicated software or electronic equipment. It's an iPod made by Apple and they make their money on easy and intuitive devices. Think, I dunno, a Zune that Microsoft tried to create like 10 years ago...

Why do you assume magic items are complicated?

I'd think that whoever made a +1 flaming sword would want the user to know how to use the powers quickly and efficiently - you wouldn't want to have to hit CTRL-ALT-DEL in the middle of a battle just to get the +1d6 fire damage working again.

Granted, some items would be necessarily complicated - The Orb of Multiverse Destruction shouldn't just have a button clearly labeled "Click here to destroy the Multiverse." But for everyday magical items I would think the uses and powers would be relatively obvious because their creators would want the powers to be obvious. You wouldn't want to wake up one day and with blurry eyesight trigger a gaseous cloud instead of a Light spell.

 

[Fifth Element]

I'm not falling into any traps. You look at the descriptions of the monsters in the Monster Manual and you tell me those aren't dumbed down from the previous editions. I like simple and easier. Hell, I've been doing game design for a long time, but a lot of the flavor of the game is being yanked out. Its not hard to add it back it and we will with Violet Dawn for 4e, but its happening with core 4e and I don't like it.

Okay, first you'll have to provide an actual definition for "dumbed down". In my experience, it is usually used to mean "simplified, but in a way I don't like".

 

[Fifth Element]

I bet I can figure out what button to press to make it play music.

This is actually a very good point. Magic swords are made for fighter-types to use, even if they are made by wizards. It's very poor design on the wizards' part if the person who is intended to use the item cannot figure out how to use it.