Detect magic + Spellcraft = aggravation?

[Liquidsabre]

I think a magical trap set to go off and activate a fireball spell is *not* an active fireball spell and so spellcraft won't help in this case. It does glow with evocation magic though. A caster might be able to identify a triggering spell perhaps such as a contingent effect that might be in place but I don't think spellcraft can reveal a spell that isn't currently active somehow. While a Glyph is an active and continuous spell in effect, so spellcraft would be useful there.

 

[Chimera]

The Solution: Nystul's Magic Aura

Duration: 1 day / Level

Can make a magic item appear non-magical, a non-magic item as a powerful magic item (great for red herrings and decoys), or any variation thereof.

Heck, with certain items, I consider it likely that this spell would be built in at item creation, so as to be permanent.

Imagine the surprise when your party raids the BBEG's lair to find the great McGuffin, only to find the magic fading out a couple of days later....and they realize that they failed to get the object of their desire! A must for any intelligent BBEG!

Of course, an Identify spell will get around this. But honestly, how often does your party bother with that?

 

[irdeggman]

You just have to remember that using the Detect spells requires "concentration" - it takes time in order to figure out the really useful stuff - other than the superficial part like there is magic in the area.

The time part is where it is supposed to become more challenging. Do the characters have sufficient time to perform what they are trying to. Will their spells wear off before the get it done? Will there be a random (or planned) encounter? Things like these are the balancing part of the detect spells, IMO.

 

[Caliban]

Have you had any headaches with detect magic and Spellcraft? How do you deal with it?

Quasqueton

For me it solves more headaches than it creates. I just factor it in as one of the possible clues (sometimes the only clue) as to how some unknown magical device or trap works.

It means the PC's can figure stuff out using their own abilities rather than me having to leave a convenient note or knowledgable NPC somewhere to explain how to bypass some odd magical trap. They can see what spells make it up, and that is usually enough of a clue to point them in the right direction for solving the puzzle or bypassing the trap.

And for complicated things, just because they know all the spells that are on an item/area/portal doesn't mean that they know the final effect generated by all the spells working in combination, or how to bypass them. You can see all the pieces to a puzzle without immediately knowing how they fit together or what the final picture is. Many magic items don't produce effects that perfectly match the effects of the spells used to create them, for example.

 

[Knight Otu]

With detect magic, you can see and detect, no?

It's not really the PCs knowing the school of magic, but rather how detect magic, as now a ubiquitous 0-level spell, is used so often. And it's not really detect magic by itself, but in conjunction with Spellcraft.

But is there a fireball spell in place and in effect on a wand of fireballs? On a decanter of endless water, if only a control water spell is in place and in effect, how does it create or gate in all that water? On an elixir of hiding, why would it only grant a Hide bonus when there is a invisibility spell in place and in effect?

 

[Caliban]

But is there a fireball spell in place and in effect on a wand of fireballs? On a decanter of endless water, if only a control water spell is in place and in effect, how does it create or gate in all that water? On an elixir of hiding, why would it only grant a Hide bonus when there is a invisibility spell in place and in effect?

It doesn't really work on non-active magic items, you just get what the DMG says. But it can be pretty helpful for figuring out what to expect when you activate a portal, or what spell effect is tied into a Hallow spell, or what an item with a non-obvious effect does when the rogue with UMD activates it, or what that odd humming, glowing item with the sparks coming off of it does.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Or simply return the spell to only being able to determine magic or not magic.

That's the best advice I've seen in a long time!

 

[ForceUser]

No headaches to report. As a DM, you need to just keep in mind that PCs have access to this ability.

Yup. I plan on it, and integrate this ability into my adventure design. You just need to make an internal paradigm shift to "acceptance," Q. It's not a big deal.

 

[Piratecat]

That's the best advice I've seen in a long time!

By "return," Frank implies that the spell ever just gave you magic or not-magic. That's not the case; even in 1e and 2e, it had a 5% chance per level of giving you the school of the magical aura being examined.

 

[helium3]

I never said it was ruining my game. It's not.


With detect magic, you can see and detect, no?

It's not really the PCs knowing the school of magic, but rather how detect magic, as now a ubiquitous 0-level spell, is used so often. And it's not really detect magic by itself, but in conjunction with Spellcraft.

<children need me . . . more later (maybe tomorrow)>

Quasqueton

I aplogize for conflating "causing headaches" with "ruining your game." Still, how does this cause headaches for you. Why would something being used very often be problematic. Does it seriously slow down your game play? If so, in what way does this happen?