Detect Magic & Spellcraft DC

[Blasphemonkey]

This is something that has always had me a little bit confused. When casting Detect Magic & rolling to determine the school of magic, the Detect Magic spell entry reads as follows: Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half-caster level for a nonspell effect.

First off, what would be an example of a "nonspell effect?" What magic items have these nonspell effects?

The adventure path module in Dungeon 104 (Demonskar Legacy) confuses the issue even further. They give you an easy reference entry for each room in that adventure, including the magical aura strengths in the room, and spellcraft DC and school of magic. They give a Ring of Sustenance the following entry: faint aura, DC 20, conjuration. Now where are they getting that DC? The entry for that item in the DMG gives a caster level of 5th, and the spell used in creating it, Create Food & Water.

So, looking at the Detect Magic entry above, if this is a non-spell effect, the DC should be 17 (15 + half-caster level of 2 (rounding down)), or if this is a spell effect, the DC should be 18 (15 + spell level of 3).

One side note: what would be the Detect Magic result on, say, a simple Longsword + 1? I would think faint aura, but after that...evocation school? And what would be the spellcraft DC?

Is there anyone who can clear up the above things for me? I would be eternally grateful.

- Blasphemonkey

 

[Dimwhit]

This is something that has always had me a little bit confused. When casting Detect Magic & rolling to determine the school of magic, the Detect Magic spell entry reads as follows: Make one check per aura; DC 15 + spell level, or 15 + half-caster level for a nonspell effect.

First off, what would be an example of a "nonspell effect?" What magic items have these nonspell effects?

I suspect you wouldn't use this for magic items, but for effects on creatures, etc. Maybe like Wildshape? I can't think of any examples offhand, but they would probably not be magic items specifically.

The adventure path module in Dungeon 104 (Demonskar Legacy) confuses the issue even further. They give you an easy reference entry for each room in that adventure, including the magical aura strengths in the room, and spellcraft DC and school of magic. They give a Ring of Sustenance the following entry: faint aura, DC 20, conjuration. Now where are they getting that DC? The entry for that item in the DMG gives a caster level of 5th, and the spell used in creating it, Create Food & Water.

So, looking at the Detect Magic entry above, if this is a non-spell effect, the DC should be 17 (15 + half-caster level of 2 (rounding down)), or if this is a spell effect, the DC should be 18 (15 + spell level of 3).

I would agree with you on that one. Probably a mistake. Wouldn't be the first time for a d20 product.

One side note: what would be the Detect Magic result on, say, a simple Longsword + 1? I would think faint aura, but after that...evocation school? And what would be the spellcraft DC?

Faint aura. Basic enhancement bonuses for weapons and armor don't radiate a specific school of magic, as far as I know, since there isn't a specific spell used to create it. Some people think Magic Weapon or GMW is used with making a +1 longsword, for example. But that's not the case. (Someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[morbiczer]

Faint aura. Basic enhancement bonuses for weapons and armor don't radiate a specific school of magic, as far as I know, since there isn't a specific spell used to create it. Some people think Magic Weapon or GMW is used with making a +1 longsword, for example. But that's not the case. (Someone else will correct me if I'm wrong.)

In 3.5 armor and protection items radiate Abjuration (obviously), weapons and offensive items Evocation. (DMG page 213) (In 3.0 this was probably Transmutation, but I'm not sure.)

The strength of the magic aura depends on the caster level of the item, which is the enhancement bonus times three for magic armors, shields or weapons (with no special ability). (DMG page 217 and 221) So:

+1 -- Faint
+2 -- Moderate
+3 -- Moderate
+4 -- Strong
+5 -- Strong

 

[Tilla the Hun (work)]

The adventure path module in Dungeon 104 (Demonskar Legacy) confuses the issue even further. They give you an easy reference entry for each room in that adventure, including the magical aura strengths in the room, and spellcraft DC and school of magic. They give a Ring of Sustenance the following entry: faint aura, DC 20, conjuration. Now where are they getting that DC? The entry for that item in the DMG gives a caster level of 5th, and the spell used in creating it, Create Food & Water.

So, looking at the Detect Magic entry above, if this is a non-spell effect, the DC should be 17 (15 + half-caster level of 2 (rounding down)), or if this is a spell effect, the DC should be 18 (15 + spell level of 3).

- Blasphemonkey

Err... A Ring of Sustenance -does- have a spell effect, it required Create Food & Water, thus it would be DC20 (though I could equally understand the counter-arguement, that the ring does not have the effect of the spell and thus, should be DC17)

A magic item without a spell effect? Enhanced Armor or Weapons... No specific spell or effect required to make a Long Sword +1, just a caster level.

Also, I'm not sure but wouldn't something along the lines of an immovable rod not have a spell effect or required spell?

I don't have my books (ugh - work) but I'm sure there's more examples of magic items with no spell effects and no spell required.

I would tend to think that magically triggered traps would fall into this category too. That is, at least some of them would.

 

[Blasphemonkey]

Err... A Ring of Sustenance -does- have a spell effect, it required Create Food & Water, thus it would be DC20 (though I could equally understand the counter-arguement, that the ring does not have the effect of the spell and thus, should be DC17)

Well, since it has a spell effect, & Create Food & Water is a 3rd level spell, wouldn't the DC be 18 (15 + spell level of 3)???

Thanks everyone for helping.

- Blasphemonkey

 

[Wolffenjugend]

No Magic

Good timing. I just noticed this very thing this morning. The Rod of Metamagic Maximization has a detection description of No Magic (or No Specific School, I can't remember). My guess would be b/c there is no one school that is linked to the item.

 

[Blasphemonkey]

Good timing. I just noticed this very thing this morning. The Rod of Metamagic Maximization has a detection description of No Magic (or No Specific School, I can't remember). My guess would be b/c there is no one school that is linked to the item.

It is magical (strong aura), but there is no school, as listed in the DMG. That is another very good example of a magic item with a non-spell effect though, thanks.

"I see, said the blind man--err, monkey."

- Blasphemonkey

 

[evilishmael]

So I know this is a REALLY old thread...

But have we gotten clarification on this?

1) What exactly could be classified as a "nonspell effect"?

2) Would seeing an invisible object use a DC of 15+Spell level, due to the magical aura of invisibility?

3) Like the original poster said, In either case, shouldn't the dc be lower than 20? It seems that for magical Items Wizards is using a different rule. Ie, DC= 15+Full Caster Level of the Item.

Anyone have clarification on this?

 

[Shin Okada]

If you tries to see the aura of a magic item itself, use it's caster level. Having some spells as prerequisite is irrelevant. You just use the magic item's caster level.

If the magic item actually casts a spell, you may also see the aura of the spell effect.

Assume a character has a Staff of Illusion.

Detect magic or similar spell will always detect the aura of the staff itself, which is strong illusion. DC is 21 because the caster level of the staff is 13.

If the wielder of the staff activated it to cast Disguise Self spell on him, a mage can also detect the aura of Disguise Self spell around the wielder. In this case, the aura is faint illusion, as Disguise Self spell is a 1st-level spell. DC is 16 (1st-level spell).