Devilish question (cornugon/malebranche)

[Moulin Rogue]

I got the 3e MM2 recently which includes the malebranche devil. I'm kind of confused now because the cornugon devil is in the 3e MM and I thought "cornugon" and "malebranche" used to be two names for the same devil?

Were they two separate devils in 1e? It's been about 15 years since I looked in the 1e MM and I just can't remember.

 

[BOZ]

i'm mighty confused on that one myself... still haven't figured it out. maybe i should copy this thread onto the general discussion board to see if we get more of a response...

 

[Gez]

There's another thing I'd like to know about the Malebranche devil: who created this monster ?

I think I can guess how the inspiration came. A young student, in a philosophy classroom, is boring to death on the over-complex works of an obscure French philosopher and mathematician, Nicolas de Malebranche (1638-1715). Time pass, the young student becomes a D&D game designer, and avenge himself by giving the name of his enemy to a grotesque, gothic devil.

It's a wonder we have avoided horrors like the Freudoloth or the Rabelais tanar'ri.

Bah, sarcasm aside, some Malebranche links so all diabolists could get some background on this foul fiend indeed...

http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/m/malebran.htm
http://www.orst.edu/instruct/phl302/philosophers/malbranche.html
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09568a.htm
http://www-gap.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/~history/Mathematicians/Malebranche.html
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/malebranche/

And in French: http://abu.cnam.fr/BIB/auteurs/malebranchen.html

 

[Gez]

Bumping.

Atually, I think "freudoloth" has a nice ring to it.

 

[Alzrius]

I don't have the MMII yet, so I won't be too much help, but I'll list off what I can.

In 1E, the "malebranche" were listed among the various devils. Later, in 2E, they changed anything that had a bearing on real-world theology to different nomenclature to avoid pissing off the religiously intolerant. "Demons" became "tanar'ri", "devils" became "baatezu" etc.

I don't know why "malebranche" became "cornugon" but it may have had something to do with Nicolas Malebranche, a religious philosopher in the late 17th/early 18th century who was one of the principal figures in the development of Cartesianism. It doesn't make sense to me either, but I see no other reason for the name-change.

Later in 2E, we saw a return to the roots of planar things and creatures, such as tanar'ri again being called "demons", etc. There probably are a few places in 2E where cornugons are called malebranche again, though only in passing (try checking Faces of Evil: the Fiends).

As for why they've made them two separate creatures in 3E...I have no idea.

 

[Mouseferatu]

"Malabranche" (also spelled "Malebranche") are demons from the Fifth Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno.

I sort of assumed that was where the reference came from, myself.

 

[Alzrius]

Another good reason to always read the classics. Oh well.

 

[Psion]

I got the 3e MM2 recently which includes the malebranche devil. I'm kind of confused now because the cornugon devil is in the 3e MM and I thought "cornugon" and "malebranche" used to be two names for the same devil?

Were they two separate devils in 1e? It's been about 15 years since I looked in the 1e MM and I just can't remember.

They were the same devil. The horned devil (which had the notation "malebranche") in 1e became the cornugon in 2e.

I am at a loss to explain why they "re-converted" it.

 

[Tzarevitch]

"Malabranche" (also spelled "Malebranche") are demons from the Fifth Circle of Hell in Dante's Inferno.

I sort of assumed that was where the reference came from, myself.

I am pretty sure that the name came from "The Inferno", not from the philosopher.

Tzarevitch

 

[Gez]

Damn ! You just killed the Freudoloth concept !