Dex bonus while grappling

[Camarath]

Before that, answer me this: Which applies if a table is in contradiction with some text that accompanies it? Is it the table that wins, or the text?

The text as per DMG errata.

From DMG Errata
Errata Rule: Primary Sources
When you find a disagreement between two D&D rules
sources, unless an official errata file says otherwise, the
primary source is correct. One example of a
primary/secondary source is text taking precedence over a
table entry. An individual spell description takes precedence
when the short description in the beginning of the spells
chapter disagrees.
Another example of primary vs. secondary sources involves
book and topic precedence. The Player’s Handbook, for
example, gives all the rules for playing the game, for PC
races, and the base class descriptions. If you find something
on one of those topics from the Dungeon Master’s Guide or
the Monster Manual that disagrees with the Player’s
Handbook, you should assume the Player’s Handbook is the
primary source. The Dungeon Master’s Guide is the primary
source for topics such as magic item descriptions, special
material construction rules, and so on. The Monster Manual
is the primary source for monster descriptions, templates, and
supernatural, extraordinary, and spell-like abilities.

 

[moritheil]

The text as per DMG errata.

Good, then you have a valid concern. Unfortunately, I can see how either interpretation might be argued for, and therefore I cannot in good faith commit myself to one side at this time.

 

[Camarath]

I am of the opinion that a pinned creature does not suffer the AC penalty or have it dexterity treated as 0 against the creature pinning it.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am of the opinion that a pinned creature does not suffer the AC penalty or have it dexterity treated as 0 against the creature pinning it.

It doesn't come up all that often anyway, since the only interaction you can have with the AC of an opponent you're pinning is if you use his light weapon against him.

It's a shame it has to be a light weapon he's holding. It would be so much fun to attack an opponent with his own unarmed strike. ("Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!")

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

It doesn't come up all that often anyway, since the only interaction you can have with the AC of an opponent you're pinning is if you use his light weapon against him.

It's a shame it has to be a light weapon he's holding. It would be so much fun to attack an opponent with his own unarmed strike. ("Stop hitting yourself! Stop hitting yourself!")

-Hyp.

You can't use a weapon of last resort?

 

[Hypersmurf]

You can't use a weapon of last resort?

Once you've pinned an opponent, he's at your mercy. However, you don't have quite the freedom of action that you did while grappling. You can attempt to damage your opponent with an opposed grapple check, you can attempt to use your opponent's weapon against him, or you can attempt to move the grapple.

Activate magic item, attack opponent, cast spell, etc aren't available options.

-Hyp.

 

[moritheil]

OK. Natural weapons and IUS are light weapons, though, right?

 

[Prism]

OK. Natural weapons and IUS are light weapons, though, right?

They are but usually, if you have managed to get someone else in a pin, your grapple check is better than your attack bonus and therefore its often better to grapple to deal damage rather than use the attack with a light weapon option. Having all the penalties may even this up however

 

[Hypersmurf]

OK. Natural weapons and IUS are light weapons, though, right?

Yes. But not a weapon they're holding.

Now, that's the same phrase used by the Haste spell, so it could be argued that if Haste allows someone to make an extra natural attack (one extra melee attack with any weapon he is holding), then you can hit him with his own natural attack in a grapple.

But it could also be argues that as written, Haste doesn't allow someone to make an extra natural attack, since he's not holding a bite or a tail slap.

-Hyp.

 

[Camarath]

It doesn't come up all that often anyway, since the only interaction you can have with the AC of an opponent you're pinning is if you use his light weapon against him.

True but AC is not the only effect of the note it also allows sneak attack damage to apply against the pinned creature. If the pinning creature has the sneak attack ability then if the note applies to the pinner it would deal sneak attack damage with the Damage Your Opponent option as well as the Use Opponent’s Weapon option.