D&D 5E DEX Save, if Grabbed

[The Crimson Binome]

I cannot imagine a situation in which the barbarian avoids full damage and the thief suffers full damage.

Really? My initial reaction was that the Barbarian could use a reaction to grapple-check the Thief into the blast, thus providing a sort of cover - full damage to the Thief, and half to the Barbarian.

Honestly, the situation is complicated enough that you might want to take the Gygax approach - roll normally, and then narrate the events based on the result. If the Barbarian succeeded and the Thief failed, then what I said above is what happened. If the opposite is true, then the Thief managed to twist behind the Barbarian instead.

 

[Agamon]

This is definitely a rule where you'll get more than one opinion. You can steadfastly keep to the RAW (say, if you're running AL, or just like sticking to RAW, as a rule), or come up with something that makes sense.

Personally, I think I can come up with an explanation as to what happens in the game world, depending on save results, without making any rules adjustments.

 

[Riley37]

Whoever succeeds, uses the other's body for shelter. If neither of you makes the save DC, or if you tie on the roll, you both fry.

Oh, I like this! With a tip of the hat to Saelorn's visualization. (Works best if thief is large enough to provide "blast shadow".)

 

[MrMyth]

Keep in mind - grabbing doesn't mean wrestling someone to the ground, it is more like grabbing onto their arm and keeping them in one place.

Also worth noting - there is a specific feat that *does* let you turn a grab into a 'pin', which *does* cause disadvantage on dex saves vs the restrained condition. So if you did want to house rule those extra penalties onto all generic grabs, that would take something away from anyone who wanted to be a dedicated grappler with that feat.

 

[Saeviomagy]

If you start penalizing dex saves because the target is grappled/grappling, expect the players to start taking advantage of that.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Also worth noting - there is a specific feat that *does* let you turn a grab into a 'pin', which *does* cause disadvantage on dex saves vs the restrained condition. So if you did want to house rule those extra penalties onto all generic grabs, that would take something away from anyone who wanted to be a dedicated grappler with that feat.

Caveat - I do not use or allow feats in my game, so I may occasionally just hand out the benefits of a feats as free for everyone. For example, anyone in my game can always draw two weapons with one interaction.

 

[Scorpio616]

There's a general historical trend in D&D of not penalizing reflex/dex/whatever saves based on immobility, because it's really a sort of Heroic Luck thing, and it doesn't matter whether you can move or not.

Thankfully that mollycoddling trend is now DEAD! Can't move? Enjoy your full blast to the face.

Paralyzed
• The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.
Restrained
• The creature has disadvantage on Dexterity saving throws.
Stunned
• The creature automatically fails Strength and Dexterity saving throws.

But grappled has no such rider...

Grappled
• A grappled creature’s speed becomes 0, and it can’t benefit from any bonus to its speed.
• The condition ends if the grappler is incapacitated (see the condition).
• The condition also ends if an effect removes the grappled creature from the reach of the grappler or
grappling effect, such as when a creature is hurled away by the thunderwave spell.

 

[seebs]

I don't really buy the "mollycoddling" line. I think that implies a motivation that doesn't really fit any of the evidence. On the other hand, I'll buy it as a realism thing. Interestingly, "incapacitated" per se does not affect strength or dex saves.

 

[Riley37]

So, is there a way to impose the Restrained condition on a target, with only bare hands and STR?

 

[pedro2112]

So, is there a way to impose the Restrained condition on a target, with only bare hands and STR?

Yes, with a grappler feat. Also, some monsters have special grapple attacks that impose the restrained condition.