D&D 5E Dex to AC when unconscious?

[BryonD]

Thus: if there's enough question that you need to roll a die, then Dex bonus applies. At the point where you'd be denied Dex, no roll is necessary.

So again the held guy in plate and the held guy in a robe are no different.

I agree it is a corner case. But the OP is in that corner, so for on topic, it matters.
It actually came up in my game last night. And yes, that is a really rare thing, so just a funny coincidence here. A full plate fighter was held and an attack roll came up 4 and 6. I ruled it a clank.
The fighter in question had a DEX of 10, so the true point of this thread didn't play in. But this does address your point.

The fighter remained held for a couple more rounds, and didn't stay so lucky.

 

[Sailor Moon]

I allow disarm but don't forget that creatures can do it as well. Creatures that don't use weapons have the advantage because they can disarm you but you can't in return.

That is why you should always have a back up weapon, even if it's not a weapon that does the same amount of damage but less.

 

[Coredump]

You'd be surprised. I had a couple of NPCs beating on an unconscious PC for multiple rounds, unable to quite finish him off. Mostly luck but still kind of disconcerting.

(PC really, really offended them.)

Thats 100% on you. The rules are pretty clear: The Players say what they want to do, the DM determines what happens, and will ask for a roll *if* the DM feels the outcome is uncertain.

There is nothing in the rules preventing you from allowing a PC or creature from just slitting the throat of an unconscious person.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

Autokill on paralyzed and sleeping targets sounds like it severely overpowers the abilities that generate those conditions.

Maybe it's just my perceptions, but 5E seems to go through a lot of effort to make it hard to dogpile on an effect hindered victim as part of balance of those effects. Turning them in 1Hit-kills, seems counter to that.

• Can't delay to just after your caster so victim may break out before your turn.
• Ready costs you your extra attacks and your reaction. so it costs a lot to ready for after the Hold Person.
• No simultaneous actions in the initiative system so if an effect ends when the victim is struck, one attacker benefits.

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

Thats 100% on you. The rules are pretty clear: The Players say what they want to do, the DM determines what happens, and will ask for a roll *if* the DM feels the outcome is uncertain.

There is nothing in the rules preventing you from allowing a PC or creature from just slitting the throat of an unconscious person.

I know it's on me. I wasn't saying it was bad (DX wasn't in play anyway). I responding to someone who said monsters will shred you automatically. I could instead have done some math to show the probability of missing with advantage, but some people seem to respect math less for some reason than anecdotes. Since I had an anecdote, I shared it. It can happen.

 

[Cernor]

Paralyzed means you can't move. Why would you have a Dex bonus to AC when you can't move? Dex AC takes into account that you are moving and dodging along with having the protection of your armour.

I'm not debating that having Dex added to AC doesn't make sense if a creature relies on moving and dodging to avoid damage... But even against a defenseless target, your examples which I quoted could apply. The attack could hit, but not break through the armour; if the target's wearing light or medium armour (or clothes), the attack could glance off or get tangled up. The attacker misjudging the swing, tripping while swinging, or being distracted are all independent of the defender. Whether or not Dex is added to AC, a miss is a miss and has to be narrated somehow.

 

[KarinsDad]

I agree that it's too easy. Disarm's one of those things though that's tricky to balance almost no matter how the rules work. Against creatures with natural attacks it's useless (unless you allow it to literally dis-arm the opponent). Against creatures with weapons it can be almost useless (if the creature has a bunch of other weapons on it, such as a brace of spears) or OP (if it doesn't have any other weapons and now has to rely on unarmed attacks).

In 3rd, I almost never saw anyone without the disarm feat even attempt it, because the odds were against them. Those with the feat rarely did anything but disarm, which could get a bit tiresome. I think the Battlemaster ability finds a sweet spot somewhere between, but that's no consolation to a rogue who wants to attempt to disarm, unless he takes the feat that gives him that ability.

I think that the "pin" action in 5E (i.e. grapple followed by shove/prone) is how disarm should probably work (even though it is not how some cinematic disarms might seem to work).

1) Grapple opponent.
2) Disarm foe as per DMG optional rules (can only be done if foe is grappled by attacker).
3) Scoop up weapon as part of disarm as per normal "use an object" doing an attack rules (assuming that the attacker wants to take the weapon, attacker needs second hand free to do this since first hand is still grappling, if the attacker has a weapon in his second hand, then he can disarm by knocking the weapon out as per DMG, but he cannot pick it up yet).

If it takes two actions and two sets of rolls instead of one (and the attacker can only steal the weapon if he has both hands free), it's not as easy and it costs more resources. It's also not easy for the foe to just take it back either. So it becomes something that the PCs and NPCs use either against a much tougher foe (because damage is going to be slow), or they use as more or less a last ditch option.

 

[Sunseeker]

Wizards only get half their proficiency to attacks - since we're emulating a previous edition.

Nothing sacred about the 'unified proficiency' system.

Except simplicity and avoiding the mix-matched BAB system of prior editions.

 

[Fanaelialae]

I think that the "pin" action in 5E (i.e. grapple followed by shove/prone) is how disarm should probably work (even though it is not how some cinematic disarms might seem to work).

1) Grapple opponent.
2) Disarm foe as per DMG optional rules (can only be done if foe is grappled by attacker).
3) Scoop up weapon as part of disarm as per normal "use an object" doing an attack rules (assuming that the attacker wants to take the weapon, attacker needs second hand free to do this since first hand is still grappling, if the attacker has a weapon in his second hand, then he can disarm by knocking the weapon out as per DMG, but he cannot pick it up yet).

If it takes two actions and two sets of rolls instead of one (and the attacker can only steal the weapon if he has both hands free), it's not as easy and it costs more resources. It's also not easy for the foe to just take it back either. So it becomes something that the PCs and NPCs use either against a much tougher foe (because damage is going to be slow), or they use as more or less a last ditch option.

That's pretty good!

If you want to use the cinematic disarm, it could follow a similar formula.

1) Make an opposed check to lure the opponent's weapon into position. An opposed attack roll could work, though you could make it a skill check if preferred.
2) If successfully lured, make a Disarm check.
3) Grab the weapon provided you have a free hand.