diaglo's OD&D Campaign

[Henry]

Let's REALLY not turn this into an Edition War, nor any thread about personal grudges. It's an honest question, and Diaglo's giving honest answers.

Carry on, ladies and gents.

 

[der_kluge]

I hate to burst your bubble, but my 3.5 players don't study rules either. That's MY job. And has been from OD&D on. The player's play; the DM learns and implements the rules.

So save your tears for something really sad like viewing the past through nostalgia-colored glasses.

So, I'm guessing your combat sessions take like, forever? I mean, ignorant players who don't know all the intracacies of the rules in 3.5 take forever to go through combat.

player: I rolled a 13, do I hit it?
DM: No
second player (slightly more knowledgeable): "wait, did you add your strength?"
player: "Oh, I forgot, what is my modifier again?"
DM: "what's your strength?"
player: "14"
DM: "So, that's a +2 to hit. That's a 15 total, you still miss."
second player: "Wait, I have a 15 strength, and I only have a +2, why is that?"
DM: "Well, it only goes up by even" -interrupted
third player: "What about her attack modifier? She's a fighter, she has to have some bonus to attack."
player: "ooh, that makes sense. What is my modifier?"
DM: "You're 1st level, it's +1"
second player: "Do you have any feats? Some feats can grant bonuses. I skimmed that section last night."
player: "I took scribe scrolls, and mobility."
DM: *sigh*

Ok, that might be a tad extreme, but I have seen stuff not far from that. You can't have players that don't know the fundamentals and expect to get anything done at all.

 

[diaglo]

Okay. I can buy the quick stat rolling and name off a list.

However, what about class? What about hit points? Level?

I'm not saying not having those things is bad. I generally have a dozen or so NPCs at any time who only have a general power rating (Krell, Human, Male, Barbarian 6, Great Axe +1, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave). but why have the stats without the hit points and level?

What about spells? Do you pick them before hand or on the go?

all leveled NPCs are arranged ahead of time. most random guys are 0 lvl commoners. d6 for hps. no spells.

the guys with levels fit on a 3 X 5 index card. full stats, hps, items, spells if part of their class, name, rank, and serial number.

i give the players plenty of rumors about them.

Pendra and Certa the ranger and his associate in the first encounter. i have information on them. i pick them ahead of time out of my folder. i have hundreds of 3 X 5 cards.

levelled characters even NPCs are the exception. over 99% of the populace is 0 lvl.

 

[JoeGKushner]

levelled characters even NPCs are the exception. over 99% of the populace is 0 lvl.

Man, that's an interesting concept. Well, OD&D really didn't do anything with the NPC classes I believe so it does make a certain amount of sense.

Do you feel that your campaign is missing anything as compared to some of the one's you're playing in? Judging from what you're written so far, magic is much rarer and hard to find. Most of the people are just commoners making the PC's truly 'dangerous' if you will in some aspects.

In many ways, the campaign you're playing almost sounds like a 'Dark Ages d20' that many people have been asking for or about. A low magic setting almost like "Grim Tales" is meant to convey without having a seperate system to do so.

 

[Narfellus]

I like diaglos NPC concepts too, they're pretty simple and clean. Personally, i don't usually see the need for fully fledged NPC's unless they're entering combat. Even then, it's easy to wing low level characters, you have a minimum of choices (but much more than older editions). Mid-high level npc's are another matter.

Personally, i think one of the most important attributes of a DM is to make his NPC's seem different, and that can't be done through 3.5 stats (unless in combat). A portrait, a few character traits, and a new voice can make a huge imprint on players, more so than a fat stat block that might never get used.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Personally, i think one of the most important attributes of a DM is to make his NPC's seem different, and that can't be done through 3.5 stats (unless in combat). A portrait, a few character traits, and a new voice can make a huge imprint on players, more so than a fat stat block that might never get used.

I agree. This can be done in any system though from Hero and GURPS to dreaded Rolemaster.

John For's book on NPC's is a great read for those interested in increasing their NPC's vitality and impact on the characters in a fairly game neutral manner.

 

[atom crash]

In my 3.5 campaign, I hardly ever fully stat up my NPCs. I'll have a general idea of what they look like, who they are, a major personality and physical trait, and some idea of what their stats are (he looks heavily muscled, probably very strong; she's cute and has a winning smile), but never a full stat block until I really need it.

Since I use the point-buy system for PCs, I use the elite array for NPC stats. I just have to assign them on the fly as needed, modifiying slightly here and there for exceptional cases.

I agree that NPCs take up a lot of time in 3.5, but there's really no need to make a full stat bock for everyone the PCs interact with. It doesn't necessarily rely on game system, but in the DM's style of play and ability to "wing it."

When I ran basic D&D, 1eAD&D and Warhammer FRP, I did the same thing with NPCs. I had an outline in mind and fleshed it out on paper as needed.

 

[Pants]

Ok, that might be a tad extreme, but I have seen stuff not far from that. You can't have players that don't know the fundamentals and expect to get anything done at all.

How can you not know the very fundamentals in any game?

Thanks for the answers diaglo, they are very enlightening

 

[grodog]

Man, that's an interesting concept. Well, OD&D really didn't do anything with the NPC classes I believe so it does make a certain amount of sense.

That's actually one of the things about non-3e rules that I do like better---while it's a lot faster to create NPCs in general (ones with stats, that is), more importantly, there also isn't an entire hierarchy of minor, low-level characters in any given settlement. Prior to 3e, most NPCs were zero level; PCs were the exception rather than the rule. This helps to keep the heroic focus on the PCs, and also keeps 18th level bakers from beating off an invasion of orcs :rolleyes

Of course there's nothing keeping a DM from abandoning 3e NPC demographics in his campaigns, but to do so requires a bit more rework since 3e's "classed infrastructure" seems to be a part of the baseline balancing act of the system.

John For's book on NPC's is a great read for those interested in increasing their NPC's vitality and impact on the characters in a fairly game neutral manner.

Joe, I'm not familiar with this book. Can you provide some pointers to reviews, product pages, etc.?

 

[MonsterMash]

i place encounters all over the world. i give rumors or clues to the players about what they may face.

there is no party level as far as the monsters are concerned. they are around to survive. if the party proves too tough for them. they leave.

or they leave when they want.

when the party faced off against a Hill Giant. it left when it found ready meat in a trap. not b/c of anything the PCs did. although, if you believe them... they chased it away.


skills are part of background. or traine/learned over time.

NPCs are generated in 30 seconds. i look them up in a folder i have from the last 25+ years. change name and a couple items maybe. but this is done way ahead of time. i'm a wargamer. don't think i don't plan 4 moves ahead.

Funnily enough my Wilderlands campaign using 3.5 rules is done as close to this as possible, probably because the last time I ran a campaign with D&D it was with the 1974 rules + Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry and Gods, demigods and Heroes.

Certainly I don't believe in the idea of all encounters are set to the party's level and knowing when to run away is vital.

Got to admit I'm using the Skills and Feats system as it stands for the moment, but am willing to change it.

I pregenerate a lot of NPC's - particularly significant ones, but for general use I have a lot of blocks of say standard village characters: smith, milller, mayor, priest, innkeeper to use.