D&D General Dice Fudging and Twist Endings

CreamCloud0

One day, I hope to actually play DnD.
What you describe isn't unreasonable, and I might well do something similar (albeit in the open). I'd say you have softened/reinterpreted the crit result rather than fudged it away. The PC here is still badly hurt in a way that can't just be hitpointed back on, so you have preserved the poor swing in fortune that occurred.
saying that that situation isn't fudging feels like 'no true scotsman'-ing the issue to me, this sort of situation is the point of having fudging available as a tool for when the dice roll way way too high over the bar for the narrative's own good.
 

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iserith

Magic Wordsmith
saying that that situation isn't fudging feels like 'no true scotsman'-ing the issue to me, this sort of situation is the point of having fudging available as a tool for when the dice roll way way too high over the bar for the narrative's own good.
Turning a crit into not-a-crit and obscuring that fact from the players is by definition fudging.

The question still remains for me - why are you rolling the dice and playing with critical hits as a rule, and character death for that matter, if you don't want that outcome to be a possibility? Just take those rules away.
 

soviet

Hero
Yeah. I ran Rolemaster not so long ago, with zero fudging and all rolls made in the open with OBs etc stated in advance. I made one rule change, which was to give each PC a single fate point in the manner of WFRP - basically a one-use get out of jail free card. Worked fine.
 

soviet

Hero
saying that that situation isn't fudging feels like 'no true scotsman'-ing the issue to me, this sort of situation is the point of having fudging available as a tool for when the dice roll way way too high over the bar for the narrative's own good.
But the point of my response is that fudging wasn't necessary in the first place. Instead of secretly mitigating or ignoring a 'bad' roll, the GM can openly re-interpret the result in a way that still messes up the character but lets play continue more smoothly.
 

Irlo

Hero
Turning a crit into not-a-crit and obscuring that fact from the players is by definition fudging.

The question still remains for me - why are you rolling the dice and playing with critical hits as a rule, and character death for that matter, if you don't want that outcome to be a possibility? Just take those rules away.
I suspect it’s because much of the time they do want that outcome to be a possibility? But not at this particular moment.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
I suspect it’s because much of the time they do want that outcome to be a possibility? But not at this particular moment.
Then it's just not really a possibility until DM says so, which again raises the question why bother rolling (and then obfuscating)? Just decide for yourself.
 

Irlo

Hero
Then it's just not really a possibility until DM says so, which again raises the question why bother rolling (and then obfuscating)? Just decide for yourself.
Hasn’t the DM decided that it’s a possibility most of the time? It’s easier to turn off the critical hit rule once out of a hundred rolls than it is to turn it on ninety-nine times.
 

iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Hasn’t the DM decided that it’s a possibility most of the time? It’s easier to turn off the critical hit rule once out of a hundred rolls than it is to turn it on ninety-nine times.
The DM could just say a 20 isn't anything special, too. They could also say, for example, that characters can't die unless the player agrees they do and that failing 3 death saves or dying from massive damage by the rules just means they are out of the rest of the scene. Then there's no worries at all that a Nat 20 might ruin someone's day, nor a character death spoil the DM's pre-planned plot. Plus everything's on the level, no need to hide anything from the players to maintain the illusion (because there is no illusion).
 

Irlo

Hero
The DM could just say a 20 isn't anything special, too. They could also say, for example, that characters can't die unless the player agrees they do and that failing 3 death saves or dying from massive damage by the rules just means they are out of the rest of the scene. Then there's no worries at all that a Nat 20 might ruin someone's day, nor a character death spoil the DM's pre-planned plot. Plus everything's on the level, no need to hide anything from the players to maintain the illusion (because there is no illusion).
Yes, I agree the DM has many options.
 

Stakes here is really a shorthand, a statement of intent. There is normally still room for some interpretation of the roll by the GM depending on whether it was a normal failure or a crit, etc.

Note that as the example you provided was an attack roll, in D&D the stakes of this are normally crystal clear - roll the fixed calculation of damage. You're adding a descriptive flourish to that, and quite rightly so, but it's no different to what a GM in another game might add to a stakes-already-set dice result to give it a particular spin or sense of depth.


What you describe isn't unreasonable, and I might well do something similar (albeit in the open). I'd say you have softened/reinterpreted the crit result rather than fudged it away. The PC here is still badly hurt in a way that can't just be hitpointed back on, so you have preserved the poor swing in fortune that occurred.
Hey, maybe we don't see so differently after all, then! :) Yeah, I realize that encounter goes beyond basic combat in the game. I just like to roll for characters' damage regardless of the actual, immediate stakes at play, even when we're leaning into an RP-driven combat. I do this partly out of habit and partly because I don't always want my players to know that this is the BBEG's accomplice or that death is absolutely off the table beforehand. Even when I have ruled out death, rolling the dice as usual can obscure that fact for more seasoned players. Imagine the dismay when they realize who they thought was the fatal hammer-wielding BBEG was little more than a footstool to the true villain. I don't think withholding information--dice included--is necessarily a bad thing if it's done to build a better campaign. Obviously, players should know beforehand whether their DM will be cryptic with these things. But as long as the party knows to evaluate their world with a critical eye, I think it's all in good fun.
 

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