Difference between Divine Challenge & Divine Sanction

[BASHMAN]

Is there any difference between these? How is a Divine sanction applied to a target?

 

[Victim]

Divine Sanction is applied by specific powers, so it's usually a lot more limited in use. An encounter power might Sanction all enemies within a burst, and the at will sanctions on a hit IIRC.

Sanction has a limited duration but has no special requirements to keep it active, whereas Challenge can be maintained over multiple rounds.

There are a number of feats that improve Divine Challenge that don't affect Divine Sanction.

 

[BASHMAN]

Do they do the same damage? So far it seems that the challenge is better in every way.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Do they do the same damage? So far it seems that the challenge is better in every way.

Yes, they are identical except for what was described above. Except that they are two different abilities so that when something refers to Divine Challenge it doesn't refer to Sanction as well.

The point is that you use both of them. You use your Divine Challenge on one enemy that is in melee with you. Then you attack a different one with a power that applies the Divine Sanction. Now you have 2 enemies marked.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Do they do the same damage? So far it seems that the challenge is better in every way.

Yes, they do the same damage. How do you figure that Divine Challenge is better in every way? Keep in mind that DC and DS aren't competing against each other. DS is meant to complement DC.

 

[mattcolville]

I think the problem was, Paladins sucked as Defenders because A: they need two good stats compared to the Fighter's one, and B: the fighter could mark more people.

I think originally the intended balance came from the fact that a fighter's mark only gave the target a penalty to hit when not attacking the fighter, but the Paladin's mark did that as well as inflict damage if the target didn't attack the Paladin.

But defenders really need to be able to mark several targets. So Divine Challenge for the main target, and Divine sanction for everyone else, since most Divine Sanction powers affect multiple targets.

 

[BASHMAN]

Yes, they do the same damage. How do you figure that Divine Challenge is better in every way? Keep in mind that DC and DS aren't competing against each other. DS is meant to complement DC.

There are a number of feats that improve Divine Challenge that don't affect Divine Sanction.

But thinking that they are *both* meant to be used at once makes me see the value of DS.

I have just made a Dragonborn hybrid Sorcerer / Paladin. He uses Divine Challenge, then attacks the foe with an At-Will sorcerer power that damages the enemy if he attacks me. I decided that the divine sanction powers would also work good (for when I use an Action Point).

I spent my first feat on getting Full Plate & Heavy Shield. I think my next feat will be Mighty Challenge.

 

[abyssaldeath]

But thinking that they are *both* meant to be used at once makes me see the value of DS.

I have just made a Dragonborn hybrid Sorcerer / Paladin. He uses Divine Challenge, then attacks the foe with an At-Will sorcerer power that damages the enemy if he attacks me. I decided that the divine sanction powers would also work good (for when I use an Action Point).

I spent my first feat on getting Full Plate & Heavy Shield. I think my next feat will be Mighty Challenge.

Where DS really shines is when you use powers like "Valorous Smite". "Valorous Smite" applies DS to each enemy within 3 squares if you hit. Since the damage doesn't require any action on your part, every enemy will take damage if the don't attack you. I don't believe any other Defender can do that.

The downside to that, of course, is that all those enemies are more likely to target you. Use with caution.

 

[Nightson]

Or a Daily power like Majestic Halo. Divine Sanction on any enemy that starts it's turn adjacent to you.

 

[Zaphael]

I played an epic level paladin and I will swear by DS. =)

It can make the paladin a very effective defender/controller if used with a combination of feats and powers. My current character uses the following:

Feat:
Contagious Challenge : enemies adj to target of divine challenge is divine sanctioned. Good for challenging multiple enemies if they are clustered.

Honored Foe : Gain six temporary hp when a marked target attacks you. Effectively gives you a "resistance" of 6 when attacked by the multiple sanctioned and marked foes.

Powers:
Knight's Defiance : Effect that pulls all enemies within 5 squares of you adjacent to you. Then make an attack on one of them. All of them are "divine sanctioned."

Just Radiance (Justicar Paragon Path I think): Close burst 5 attack, if hits, enemy cannot make an attack that doesn't include until end of next turn.


Basically with some of these powers, the paladin can really defend the party. Of course, unless the creatures wish to suffer the pitiful damage of ignoring the sanction and the -negative attack rolls. Otherwise, the paladin WILL get surrounded and attacked. Hence, being able to take the punishment is a must. However, it is very hard to kill a paladin defender if your team/friends are there.