Difference between FR, Eberron, Middle Earth, Greyhawk etc.

If you're going to set a game in Middle Earth, the Elven Name Generator in the back of the Silmarilion is going to be of use, anyway.

As far as Middle Earth being mostly hostile, I would agree. By the time of LotR, Mirkwood might be getting a bit better, but it was still a dangerous place. To the north was the Withered Heath from which the dragons came. There were the dunlendings and the hillmen that Saruman sent against the Rohirim and interbred with his orcs. The balrog in Moria predated Sauron (it was a servant of Morgoth), and it is hinted that other strange creatures might lurk in the depths.

Not every orc served Sauron or Saruman; the orcs of Moria were independent (although they banded with the Mordor orcs and the Isengard orcs when Merry and Pippen were captured) and even the orcs of Mordor had dreams of escaping and going off elsewhere (as is overheard while crossing Mordor).

Moral ambiguity in LotR is, admittedly, more subtle than in Eberron. The sin of Sauron isn't that he is simply evil, but that he wants to order the world to match his own vision, and then to keep it timeless. This is what the Three Rings of the elves were made to do (which is why Rivendell and Lothlorien are untouched, and time passes differently there), and is the sin of the elves that forces them to ultimately dwindle and return to the West. Also, of course, they weren't supposed to be in Middle Earth in the first place.

From the thirteen dwarves in The Hobbit through Gimli in LotR, the dwarves talk a good fight but often fail to match their talk with action. They are susceptible to the lure of gold, and it is noteworthy that Gimli eschews monetary reward for three hairs from the head of Galadrial. It is a major theme in Tolkein's work that one should beware what one possesses, lest ultimately one's possessions possess their owner.

Beorn is where the good-aligned werebears come from, but Beorn himself is not good-aligned, and were it not for Gandalf's cleverness and the fact that they shared a hatred of goblins and wargs, the dwarves would have received no help -- indeed, they might have been slaughtered. When Thorin suggests that they simply keep Beorn's loaned ponies, Gandalf tells him exactly how foolish he is being.

Gollum himself is a study in the greyness of subtle moral ambiguity. He deserves death, many times over. He has robbed babies from cradles to consume them, and begins his career with the Ring by murdering his best friend. Yet he is also deserving of pity, and ultimately, he is capable of redemption, even if he never has the chance to be redeemed.

Saruman, too, is deserving of pity, and capable of redemption, as is recognized by Gandalf, Treebeard, and Frodo. Likewise Wormtongue. Again, although they don't redeem themselves, this is dealt with by Tolkein as a tragedy rather than as a justice.

I paraphrase Gandalf: "Many who live deserve death. And many who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Than do not be too quick to mete out death in punishment." (Or words to that effect.)

What Tolkein posits is a world that is filled with beings that are either basically good, or that basically wish to be good, or to lead good lives, but that are constantly tempted out of that path by the world itself, and the things within it. The temptations of the world must be resisted, but even the Wise fall under their sway. Even Sauron did not start out evil. Even Sauron is to be pitied.

RC
 

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Most of the points have been made....I assume there is a reason why you didn't include Dark Sun, Planescape, Spelljammer, or Ravenloft since they are very different from Tolkien.

I think what it comes down to is the DM and the players though. It really doesn't matter what the original setting was because the moment you start playing it you make it your own.

I did a heavy Mulhorand/Unther game in FR with strong Cthulhu aspects. I'd say running Egyptian/ Summerian with Far Realm really is different than Tolkien and different from the general FR feel.

Currently I'm thinking about starting up a Ptolus game which has a strong Tolkien feel [all in a city] but yet is incredibly different....I think you can run plenty of different games in a Ptolus setting.....
 


Chrome said:
Maybe it is just me that doesn't dwelwe deep enough into the settings, but are they really that different?

only the creator of each.

FR - Ed Greenwood
Eberron - Keith Baker
Middle Earth - JRR Tolkien
Greyhawk - E. Gary Gygax
etc...


when you try to use someone else's ideas to model a world you are gonna use and at the same time use the rules of the game to make it playable..

well they all are gonna seem similar to you. b/c only you know how you are gonna do it.

does that make sense?
 

Snark-in-cheek answer: Three of them are D&D settings, and one is not. :)

I sympathize with Chrome. FR, Eberron, and GH are really more similar than they are different, which makes sense, as they are all intended to facilitate D&D adventures and work with the rule system. It's mostly the "color" that varies. But, it can only vary so much and still work with the rules.

Middle Earth, though, doesn't feel like any of the D&D settings to me. It's not the product of a team effort, and it's not designed to meet the needs of an RPG system. Sure, it's been a massive influence, but that wasn't its purpose. This is why I think that few, if any, RPG systems have really captured the feeling of ME.

Anyway, sorry for the digression. :)
 

I agree Middle Earth is a hostile world, with islands of weal protected by forces of good, whether unseen (the Ranger protecting the last remains of fallen Arnor in the Shire and Bree), hidden from the world (Rivendell, Lothlorien, the sylan elves in the Mirkwood), or protected by hard-pressed armies (Rohan and Gondor).

Thus the other name for Rivendell: the Last Homely House.

To put it another way, Middle Earth is an apocalyptic vision. With the benefit of hindsight (we won!) it may not look that way, but at the beginning, the world is in deep doo-doo, with the great kingdoms of old mostly fallen, the line of kings of men broken, Moria and Lonely Mountain long fallen, and the elves preparing to abandon Middle Earth.

It's also a very old place, with forgotten ages of history behind it.

As for Greyhawk, it's true it grew organically from Gary Gygax's Lake Geneva campaigns, but he apparently drew the continental map early on. The feel of Greyhawk is close to standard D&D (since it's where D&D began), but a few "differences" might not be obvious:
- A small amount of sci fi (crashed spacecraft, the Dr. Who-like first adventure Temple of the Frog)
- More "hard" medieval feel than high magic. It's kingdoms and wars (before the Greyhawk Wars and From the Ashes at least) involved fighters and lances and crossbows, not ubermagic.
- PC's rule. There are big characters in Greyhawk, but they don't interact much with PC's or change the universe. And they're just other people's retired characters, not meant to be able to push everyone else around.
- Neutrality. (At least before From the Ashes) Greyhawk was not about good v. evil. It's conflicts often tend to be cultural (Vikings v. the Great Kingdom, Baklunish v. Oeridian/Suel). The big city is neutral, and the big organizations of ubercharacters are about maintaining balance, not fighting evil.
 

awayfarer said:
I briefly owned the Silmarillion. :)

I read about 1/3 of the way through it but it just couldn't hold my interest. A lot of names and just general "stuff" gets thrown at you and I found it difficult to follow. Personally I think it reads kind of like the bible, only with elves.

I'd also like to find that map I mentioned but I'm having no luck with it on google. Kinda leaves me scratching my head where the old rommate got it from.

I've read the silmarillion a couple of times now. There is a set of books that are basically unfinished drafts and notes. I believe the map of all of middle earth is in there.
 

awayfarer said:
I briefly owned the Silmarillion. :)

I read about 1/3 of the way through it but it just couldn't hold my interest. A lot of names and just general "stuff" gets thrown at you and I found it difficult to follow. Personally I think it reads kind of like the bible, only with elves.

I'd also like to find that map I mentioned but I'm having no luck with it on google. Kinda leaves me scratching my head where the old rommate got it from.

Not sure if this is the map you mean:

DavidDayMap.jpg


It is certainly a much larger map of Middle Earth, though from an earlier age than that depicted in the films as Numenor hasn't sunk etc. Still it is interesting to look at.
 

In my experience there has really been no difference between D&D settings simply because the participants never cared to really spend time learning about them. They were just a map & some names for the "ambient" D&D setting. (& I'm perfectly fine with that.)

Middle-Earth was different because:

* 3 of the 4/5 in that group had read The Lord of the Rings at least twice; the others had seen the movies (Although I'm still not sure if that's a positive or negative point... (^_^))
* I took a little time to do some research & made at least a bit of an effort at being true to the work
* We weren't playing D&D
 

RFisher said:
In my experience there has really been no difference between D&D settings simply because the participants never cared to really spend time learning about them. They were just a map & some names for the "ambient" D&D setting. (& I'm perfectly fine with that.)

Middle-Earth was different because:

* 3 of the 4/5 in that group had read The Lord of the Rings at least twice; the others had seen the movies (Although I'm still not sure if that's a positive or negative point... (^_^))
* I took a little time to do some research & made at least a bit of an effort at being true to the work
* We weren't playing D&D

It's rare that I say this, but I agree completely with RFisher.

One of the biggest problems I've had with published settings is that the players simply couldn't care less about it beyond perhaps a bit of character generation bits.
 

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