Difference between Known World and Mystara

[johnsemlak]

What is the difference between Known World and Mystara?

I've seen posts refer to such a difference. However, I always thought Mystara was a name later tagged on to the setting developed out of the Original D&D line.

Also, in what products does the Known world appear first? Who created it? Myself, my first product was the Red D&D basic set with the Wizards head logo, and IIRC it doesn't mention the Known world setting, though some early B series modules did. (B3 mentions Glantri). I first saw the setting in my old Expert set (again, with wizard's head logo). Of course the module X! had the big map, I think there was a map of Karameikos in the Rulebook as well, but I'm not sure.

 

[Tiama'at]

What is the difference between Known World and Mystara?

None. Is there a difference between Faerun and The Forgotten Realms?

Mystara was the name they gave the world when they started codifying all the setting elements present in OD&D modules. The term 'The Known World' I believe dates back to module X1 - The Isle of Dread, which included a map of several countries.

Glantri, Karameikos, etc. were individual parts of the setting, but the idea of a unified setting (i.e. that Glantri and Karameikos exist on the same planet during the same period of time, etc) took place around the Expert rules release, although the name Mystara appeared later.

 

[Estlor]

What he said.

Really. though, it's semantics. "Mystara" is the name of the planet the setting is on. "The Known World" is the region of Brun that stretches from Sind east to Thyatis and north up to northern Glantri and southern Heldann. It includes a number of nations (Sind, Atruaghin, Darokin, Thyatis, Karameikos, Five Shires, Glantri, Ylaruam, Rockhome, Alfheim/Aengmor, Ostland, Vestland, Soderfjord, Ethengar, the Broken Lands, and the Heldannic Territories that were once the Heldannic Freeholds).

IIRC, I'm pretty sure X1: Isle of Dread was the first place the Known World as a whole was mentioned. The original orange cover Palace of the Silver Princess made reference to Glantri as the setting for the adventure, and Threshold (in Karameikos) was always considered an idea starting town for campaigns. Bargle (from the red box) became an NPC in the setting on a larger scope. Many (but not all) of the OD&D adventures reference specific regions of the Known World (or Savage Coast which is just west of the KW) and a lot of that was drawn on for the GAZ series. The two AD&D box sets were kind of like pathetic attempts to update the GAZ books into AD&D.

 

[Agnostic Paladin]

Nothings ever really captured the feel of the old Gazeteers for me. Those were the best setting books ever. I certainly liked the old D&D stuff where, if refered to as a whole at all, the setting was simply the Known World. The later Mystara boxed stuff, while made more consistent and detailed, lost a lot of its charm for me. IMO, the difference is that Mystara is what the TSR suits came up with when they tried to make the Known World into the Realms.

 

[Squirrel Nutkin]

I know that "Wrath of the Immortals" was an OD&D boxed set, but IIRC it was also the last OD&D product for the Known World. And considering what it did to the setting, I'd say there are some very big differences between the Known World and Mystara... especially if you happen to be an elf.

 

[The Sigil]

"The Known World" - a rather tightly focused area - the southern edge of a continent (Brun). Detailed in the Gazetteer series for bD&D, it consisted of a world in something of an "innocent" state - a state wherein the history, culture, and major figures of the setting were more or less well-defined, but where no major cataclysms had happened in the recent past, so everyone was "comfortable" with where they were at.

"Mystara" - the name given to the planet when the setting was moved from bD&D to 2e. The big problem (IMO) is that the setting loses its innocence - you have a rending of the fabric of magic due to an artifact in Glantri that causes the entire planet to lose the ability cast spells for a short time. You have the forest of elves overrun by shadow elves (who become far more drow-like in 2e) and who raise their lost city - in the midst of a volcano - and essentially kill the forest. We find out that humanoid leaders (gnolls, kobolds, etc.) are really shadow elves.

I could go on, but it just disgusts me. Instead of having a setting where the cultures are "comfortable" with where they are at, we have a setting in constant change (the setting was updated every year for four years with the Almanac books) where everything suddenly becomes dark.

TSR violated my #1 rule for a campaign setting - NEVER arbitrarily move it into the future and make changes. (This doesn't mean you can't convert the "rules" to a new version if you switch editions, it means that if you publish a supplement where the date is 1,000 AD don't EVER EVER EVER publish a supplement where the date is >1,000 AD). Why not?

Because it makes changes that are not of my choosing and almost definitely will not square with my ongoing campaign, forcing me to re-write every single thing you publish to fit it in.

Give me culture. Give me MORE culture. Give me history. Give me MORE history. Give me a feel for the area. Give me new rules for weapons. Expand the geography. But dammit, don't EVER - and I mean EEEEEVVVVEEERRR move the "you are here" point on the timeline. It makes the setting WORTHLESS!

(rant over)

--The Sigil

 

[trancejeremy]

The name "Mystara" started before the 2E conversion. IMHO, it started with the launch of the Hollow World setting (which was inside Mystara). They needed a term to call the whole place, and something like "Known World" probably wasn't trademarkable, while Mystara was.

Also, the timeline started going forward well before the move to 2E AD&D. It started in Wrath of the Immortals, then continued with The Poor Wizards Alamanacs. It wasn't until the 3rd PWA that there was a switch to 2E AD&D - Wrath of the Immortals had nothing to do with AD&D. In fact, WoTI was essentially a companion to the Rules Cyclopedia, it was to that what the original Immortals Boxed set was to the first 4 D&D boxed sets.

 

[trancejeremy]

Okay... Wrath of the Immortals came out in 1992.

The first AD&D 2nd Edition product I have with the Mystara logo on it came out in 1994. I actually have 2 from 1994, I dunno which is first.

The first product I can find that uses the term "Mystara" is the first Poor Wizards Almanac, which is in 1992.

 

[trancejeremy]

Anyway, what really spelled the doom (IMHO) for Mystara, is almost all the 2E products were audio cd products . They'd come with a cd, and were priced about $10-15 higher than similarly sized products at the time.

There was also an ill-fated VCR game, I think set in Mystara, which seemed to star one of the American gladiators. IIRC, "Malibu" was his American Gladiator name. I think he's in that X-treme Golf Associate commercial.

While some didn't like the moving timeline (as this thread shows), it does work in some games. Shadowrun, for instance. That started in 2050, and it's now in 2062.

 

[Tyler Do'Urden]

TSR violated my #1 rule for a campaign setting - NEVER arbitrarily move it into the future and make changes. (This doesn't mean you can't convert the "rules" to a new version if you switch editions, it means that if you publish a supplement where the date is 1,000 AD don't EVER EVER EVER publish a supplement where the date is >1,000 AD). Why not?

Because it makes changes that are not of my choosing and almost definitely will not square with my ongoing campaign, forcing me to re-write every single thing you publish to fit it in.

Give me culture. Give me MORE culture. Give me history. Give me MORE history. Give me a feel for the area. Give me new rules for weapons. Expand the geography. But dammit, don't EVER - and I mean EEEEEVVVVEEERRR move the "you are here" point on the timeline. It makes the setting WORTHLESS!

Worthless? Au contraire!

It's precisely the evolving history and plot line that makes a campaign setting worth playing in! If there isn't an active, ever-changing world... what reason is there to play there?

It's precisely this lack of an interior plot line that is what has kept me away from the Kalamar setting... who wants a dull setting with no overarching events and story?

I like big, epic adventures with "railroad" plots, world-shaking cataclysms, and huge twists. Give me Wrath of the Immortals, the Avatar Crisis, or the Dragonlance modules over this boring, stagnant horse**** any day...