Difference between Known World and Mystara

Hello!

Mystara fans in the house! :D

Posted by Squirrel Nutkin:
And considering what it did to the setting, I'd say there are some very big differences between the Known World and Mystara... especially if you happen to be an elf.

Yes, Alfheim, the main elven land of the Known World area, was conquered in the events of Wrath of the Immortals. A last Gazetteer, detailing the northern elven kingdom of Wendar (where four of Alfheim's seven major clans regrouped), was hinted at in Dragon, but was apparently dropped when Mystara was switched over to 2e. And the 2e Karameikos boxed set, covering the land to which Alfheim's other three clans migrated, barely notes them in passing, and doesn't include any NPCs from the Alfheim Gazetteer, or even mention the clans by name.

Posted by trancejeremy:
Anyway, what really spelled the doom (IMHO) for Mystara, is almost all the 2E products were audio cd products . They'd come with a cd, and were priced about $10-15 higher than similarly sized products at the time.

While I also loathed both the concept and the execution of the CD adventures in the 2e Mystara products, they seem more a symptom than a cause of the demise of Mystara, to me. By the time Mystara was converted to 2e, TSR was beginning to wise up to the fact that their D&D worlds were all really competing with each other to a large extent, and that some of them would have to go. Mystara, tied from its beginnings to a rule set that was also slated for the axe, would seem a prime candidate for the death list, and I suspect that the 2e boxed sets were a last-chance experiment for the world, to see if it could entice the fans into laying down $40+ a pop for rewritten Gazetteers with some post-Wrath notes and a CD.

Posted by trancejeremy:
There was also an ill-fated VCR game, I think set in Mystara, which seemed to star one of the American gladiators. IIRC, "Malibu" was his American Gladiator name. I think he's in that X-treme Golf Associate commercial.

Hm, never heard of that one myself, but I do seem to recall one or two D&D arcade video games that were set in Darokin, which is part of the Known World.

Posted by trancejeremy:
While some didn't like the moving timeline (as this thread shows), it does work in some games.

Wrath of the Immortals can definitely generate some spirited discussion among the Mystara fans :). It is certainly one of the more drastic sets of official, published changes I've seen in any game world. But foreshadowing of most of the big changes took place in products far older than Wrath itself. Alphatia's fate was hinted at in certain Companion-level modules, the war with the Master was the subject of three X-series modules (culminating in X10, Red Arrow, Black Shield), the consequences of Glantrian secret magics were spelled out in GAZ3, and the immediate lead-up to Wrath was in the "Voyages of the Princess Ark" article series in Dragon magazine. I was just surprised that they actually took these elements, and ran with them, and worked them into an appropriately cataclysmic storyline. And I do love it when players care enough about a world to be distressed at changes to things beyond their own bank accounts or magic item inventories. It gives them motivation... :)

Hope this helps! :)
 

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One question: is there anywhere that the Immortals are statted out for 2e? Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure has a list and brief description of them, but no idea of how powerful they are relative to each other...

I'd like to run a 3e game in Karameikos, but I'd probably end up using the Greyhawk gods, considering how much of a pain it would be to work out the Immortals.
 

Tyler, my man, I'd never run anywhere other than Kalamar or something similar again.

The history and plot line evolves. There's going to be at least three major wars in the first year and a half of my Kalamar campaign (which is finally finally ready to start). Just because there's no annual supplements telling me that these wars are happening doesn't mean they aren't. The setting sets up the conditions at the beginning of the campaign, and the DM just goes from there. I doubt there's a Kalamar game out there where the world is static.

Dragonlance is good to read, but it's no fun to play. And trying to run the Realms would drive me nuts. "What the hell do you mean Tilverton got turned into a crater? I burned Tilverton down in the war with Sembia three years ago!"
 

One question: is there anywhere that the Immortals are statted out for 2e?

You're not going to find any 2e stats like there were for OD&D in Wrath of the Immortals. Then again, you probably don't need that much detail, unless your planning on having them attack your PCs. :) As for 3e stuff, I would just come up with whatever domains you think would be appropriate for the Immortals in question- Ixion would probably have Good and Sun, for example. I'm pretty sure there's also some domain examples at the "official" site at dnd.starflung.com
 



Agnostic Paladin said:
Tyler, my man, I'd never run anywhere other than Kalamar or something similar again.

The history and plot line evolves. There's going to be at least three major wars in the first year and a half of my Kalamar campaign (which is finally finally ready to start). Just because there's no annual supplements telling me that these wars are happening doesn't mean they aren't. The setting sets up the conditions at the beginning of the campaign, and the DM just goes from there. I doubt there's a Kalamar game out there where the world is static.

Dragonlance is good to read, but it's no fun to play. And trying to run the Realms would drive me nuts. "What the hell do you mean Tilverton got turned into a crater? I burned Tilverton down in the war with Sembia three years ago!"

The amusing thing is... I never run campaign settings. I always steal the plots and adventures and use them as templates for writing my own epic adventures. I'm one of those weird guys who doesn't buy modules to save time- I buy them to turn them into something else, because that always seems to work better for me than building an adventure from scratch. For example, I once ran the Dragonlance 25th anniversary book- but it wasn't. It was just a superstructure on which I built a whole new plot in a different world, where the dragons became airships, the highlords became extraplanar inquisitors, the knights of solamnia became the Witch-Knights of Dur Galezon (talk about a 180 degree turn)... it was completely unrecognizable. But had I not had that book to monkey with, I couldn't have even built that campaign or ran it- it would have fallen apart like all my others.

So far, I haven't cared for any of the Kalamar modules... they're all rather disappointing. Of course, there haven't been many epics for 3e yet... Necropolis, the Banewarrens, RTtToEE, and City of the Spider Queen are all we've seen so far, and they're pretty much just dungeon hacks. I want another world-spanning, FF-esque campaign/adventure like the classic DL modules that I can play around with... but nobody's released one yet.
 

Kesh said:
I'd like to run a 3e game in Karameikos, but I'd probably end up using the Greyhawk gods, considering how much of a pain it would be to work out the Immortals.

There have been several attempts to lay out domains for Mystara Immortals (mine might have been the first at my website, but that's horribly out of date from lack of time to update it). I've been working on doing something a bit more definite, including some domains from the FRCS and some I've made up myself, but like most of my Mystara 3e material, I've never put it up online, just on my computer.

I've done races, prestige classes, and regional feats and I'm working on firming up the radiance, demihuman relics, runes, and spells which would lead directly into updated Immortal rosters.

Heh, you'd be surprised how many great prestige classes can be mined from old OD&D books. Rakes, thugs, guild merchants, craft wizards, heldannic battle-priests, merchant princes, guachos, inheritors, treekeepers, hin masters, heralds, maguses, balancers, avengers, fire and air wizards... There is a lot of ground to cover.
 

Kesh said:

I'd like to run a 3e game in Karameikos, but I'd probably end up using the Greyhawk gods, considering how much of a pain it would be to work out the Immortals.

I'm running a 3e game in Karameikos right now. The group hasn't really had much to do with the setting yet because we jumped into RttToEE. They messed around up in Threshold and thats about it. Since they are busy I run the history as background, following almanac II (year 1011). After they finish RttToEE I intend to gat alot of use out of the almanacs. I'm hoping RttToEE lasts until at least 1012 because I can hardly spell Specularum, much less pronounce it :D

Since I couldn't find much on Mystaran Immortals I came up with another idea. I run Mystara as a kind of meeting place for the gods. Most of the gods from anywhere are around there in some form or another, just as immortals. They come to hang out, interact, chat, in a kind of 'immortal neutral zone'. Like Casablanca, but no nazis? Since Mystara already has a dearth of low power immortals it hasn't changed the history too much.

I like the history too. I couldn't possibly come up with ALL the changes, details and plot twists in the almanacs. With them the world is a much more rich and dynamic place and I can change whatever I want too.
 

I more or less do that too. Not to the extent where it's unrecognizable; but I tend to rewrite the backstory, major plot details and replace or restat a lot of the inhabitants of the modules I like.

And I agree with you on the Kalamar modules, they've been unimpressive. I guess I'm different than the other rabid Kalamar fans, I don't think everything they've printed has been the epitomy of d20. (I dislike most of their player's guide, for example.)

I'm building my campaign around the Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, and by working its background details into the divine history of Kalamar as I see it, it works very well as the sort of world-spanning epic chronicle that you mentioned. It is still a big ass dungeon crawl though. :)
 

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