Difference in tone between FR and Eberron, and the kind of groups they're suited for

[Asmor]

I just listened to the FR podcast (was having technical issues for a few days, so I'm behind in my podcasts), and much to my surprise it actually got me interested in FR.

Disclaimer: I've never been a fan of FR, and so everything I'm about to say about it is based on what I heard in that podcast.

Anyways, they talk about a sense of wonder in the setting that made me think about how different Eberron is (which is a setting I like). Eberron is a lot of great things, but it's also so blasé about all things magical. In fact, that's one of its selling points. It's a very cosmopolitan setting (at least in Khorvaire) where you can find almost anything living next door to almost anything else.

Ultimately, what I'm thinking is that if one were to choose between Eberron and FR, the choice might not be completely decided by personal preference. It seems to me that Eberron would work best if you've got players who are already invested in the setting and have some knowledge about it. On the other hand, it seems like Forgotten Realms would work best with people who don't know anything about the setting rather than those that do. Thus, ultimately, FR is the better setting for new players and Eberron the better setting for an established group.

Or am I just totally wrong?

 

[DM_Jeff]

You are not far off there at all. Sometimes it's hard to pin down. Yes, it has something to do with the DM running the game, but here's what I found after running both:

Forgotten Realms is more grounded and has a very long, rich and detailed history. By grounded I mean while there may be the odd flying ship here or there, there's no elevators, robots or lightning trains either, so the wondrous stuff comes out more wondrous because it's rarer. Adventures set in small towns has more of an impact, and travel is a big deal.

Eberron takes a lot of the wonder away by establishing lots and lots of techno-magical innovations that make travel nowhere nearly as vital, lots of bizarre combinations of D&D stuff since "everything in D&D is in Eberron" and small towns get left in the dust compaerd to the cosmopolitan nature of the way it's presented.

Yes, a DM could run a small-town non-invention more mundane game in Eberron, for example, but really, why bother? Forgotten Realms allows you to introduce new players to small bits one at a time while Eberron does seem to assume players can get all over the world with ease and thus more info about all places and current events are known to all.

My group played FR for years. We completely tried Eberron for an entire year of campaign play. It seemed very much aimed at younger's players needs and in the end was loads of fun but just way too much. We prefer the more down-to-earth Forgotten Realms.

Just my opinion.

-DM Jeff

 

[stonegod]

I've played both in FR (2-3.5) and Eberron (more recently), and I disagree on some of the OP points.

First, FR has a very heavily invested contingent, much more so than Eberron. Take a look at Candlekeep (candlekeep.org IIRC). So, I wouldn't say either is better for new players. 4E is Realms is actually supposed to make it easier for new folks than earlier editions because of that huge history; Eberron doesn't have the perceived yolk as much in my experience.

Secondly, I wouldn't say Eberron is blase about magic. A lot of utility stuff is common, true, but a village in the middle of Breland isn't expecting control winds and control weather every day, week, or year or anything. Things that make society run better are prevelant in the cosmopolitan places, but I wouldn't call it omnipresent. Rural areas are just as prevalent in Eberron as they are in the FR; and in FR, you can still get to a cosmopolitan area almost as easily as in Eberron (if you're near a lightning rail, *which is rare*; otherwise, its still cart and carriage). And there are plenty of places of unknowns and regions of discovery: Xen'drik, the Demon Wastes, the Jungle of Q'Barra, the mysteries of Argonessen.

Now, if you/your players are very familiar with Eberron, then FR would be a difference for them. Something less explored. Doesn't make either friendlier to newbies. The fact that FR is getting full support in Year 1 and Eberron not until Year 2 does have a factor, however.

Finally, I need to respond to this quote:

"everything in D&D is in Eberron"

I believe this to be the single most misquoted thing about the ECS. The quote from the ECS is "If it exists in D&D, then it has a place in Eberron." Not the same intent. The idea is that you can incorporate it, not that is *must* be incorporated. Dragonborn swordsages and their half-farspawn dread necromancers are not walking down the streets of rural Karrnath.

So, in conclusion, I don't think you're totally wrong: Reboots do give a sense of fresh air, and the initial 4E FR support will make 4E Realms easier to get into. However, I do not think FR or Eberron as a campaign setting are inherently easier to get into.

 

[rossik]

well, i havent played both, but i know alittle more about FR.

in my point of view, if i think FR, i can relate to all the other games i've played, like greyhawk, dragonlance and homebrewed one. (not that they are the same, its just a "LOTR" feeling).

on the other hand, if i think eberron, and the stuff i know, i can think of the final fantasy (the one with sqall, the blade-pistols things and the fun game card inside the game) .

so, i agree with the OP at some point.
maybe if you are DMing for video game lovers, maybe they will catch eberron in the blink of an eye, but video game have even more medieval fantasy games, so they are booth easy

but, if you are going to DM to a not-so influenced by videogame people, maybe FR should be easier for them to understand.

(im not saying that FR or EB is better, and not offending any of them, pls dont get me wrong)

 

[Jhaelen]

Ultimately, what I'm thinking is that if one were to choose between Eberron and FR, the choice might not be completely decided by personal preference. It seems to me that Eberron would work best if you've got players who are already invested in the setting and have some knowledge about it. On the other hand, it seems like Forgotten Realms would work best with people who don't know anything about the setting rather than those that do. Thus, ultimately, FR is the better setting for new players and Eberron the better setting for an established group.

Or am I just totally wrong?

First, I'd like to say I've never liked FR. I'd choose pretty much every setting over FR. FR is a 'traditional' fantasy setting in the worst possible sense. It's also a very large setting with tons of baggage, historical and otherwise. That makes it a very bad choice for new players in my book.

I actually think it's best to use the default setting for new players. PoL is the perfect fit for a group discovering the game as they start to discover the world they're in.

If I had to choose between Eberron and FR I would choose Eberron. But it's really important to take the players' preferences into account. Eberron may not be for everyone because it's not a 'vanilla' fantasy setting while FR is about as 'vanilla' as you can get.

 

[Desdichado]

Huh. I wouldn't say that at all.

In fact, even a casual glance at the vocal fanbase of Forgotten Realms cites one of it's main appeals the fact that it's so rich in detail.

Certainly, you can use it for casual or new gamers, but in doing so, you're discounting it's biggest selling point, and hence seem to be missing the boat somehow.

Eberron, on the other hand, is so grounded in the inherent assumptions of the D&D world (instead of the inherent assumptions that you'd naturally make if reading a random fantasy novel or something) that I don't know that it's a great setting for beginners either. Maybe more for people who are a bit more casual in their playstyle and don't like or require the immense cartloads of detail that FR provides, but certainly for people who have a basic familiarity with the "D&D milieu."

 

[WhatGravitas]

Eberron's advantage - at least for me - is that it's very "modern" in its mindset. Post-war depression. Urban noirish cities. Means of transportation and communication. It's closer to our modern sensibilities.

Cheers, LT.

 

[freyar]

In fact, even a casual glance at the vocal fanbase of Forgotten Realms cites one of it's main appeals the fact that it's so rich in detail.

Certainly, you can use it for casual or new gamers, but in doing so, you're discounting it's biggest selling point, and hence seem to be missing the boat somehow.

I have to agree and disagree here. I am one of those who love the detail of the Realms and the fact that there are lots of layers and hints about the deeper layers peeking through the surface. There's been a lot of attention to making it a self-consistent world (well, not by all the authors or designers, but Ed Greenwood seems to do everything possible to fit it all together). This is, IMO, the worst part of 4e FR -- they're throwing out a lot of the detail.

I don't think that it's a problem for new or casual gamers, though, or even DMs. The brilliant bit is that the DM is free to use exactly as much detail as he or she chooses. So there's a nice option to reveal things gradually, and there are lots of ideas for a DM to mine. And a DM new to the setting can "explore" in some ways as much as the player. I like that part myself.

Anyway, my 2 cp. I don't really know Eberron, so I can't comment there.

 

[Asmor]

In fact, even a casual glance at the vocal fanbase of Forgotten Realms cites one of it's main appeals the fact that it's so rich in detail.

That's one of the three big problems I've always had with the Realms, the sheer depth of detail and volume of information is staggering. Of course I know you don't have to use it, but it's still an incredible mental block. Humans have irrational fears, and I have the irrational fear that I'll do something like have King Jambe attack King Bambo, and then one of my players will point out that in the 1982 chartreuse box it was revealed that King Jambe is King Bambo.

(The other two problems I have with the realms aren't relevant)

However, as I said, I'm basing my thoughts right now on the podcast, and the podcast did a good job of making me feel like the 4eFRCS will be very accommodating to people who know nothing about the Realms, and it also piqued my interest in some of the mystery which the setting supposedly has to offer.

Basically, what it comes to down to is that it seems like there are two Realms... The Realms that FR players know and love filled with familiar faces, and the Realms that some total newbies might experience filled with mystery and questions at every corner.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I think both settings can cater to the same types of groups. The biggest difference, in my limited experience with FRs, is that the FR world has a more uniformness. What I mean here is that there is very little variance of the type of game you would be playing, swords and sorcery with knights and mages and stuff. Its the 'baseline' world of most modules. It also has a deeply developed history that is scattered across many source books, modules, and novels. Many of these novels are not 'DnDised', meaning characters in the book break almost every DnD rule, so its hard to have a coherent setting with these characters {or PC's that want to be like them}

Eberron, on the other hand, can very wildly based on what and where and how you play it. You can go from playing stone age barbarians foraying at the borders of Droam, Indiana Jones'ish adventured into the jungles of Xendrik, high fantasy with hippogryph races in Sharn... high magic, low magic.. there is a *place* in Eberron for each of these styles. And the cool thing is how the places have ties to why they are there and where they came from, neatly packaged in the history section of the ECS. The novels are 'DnDised' and the characters within them can easily become represented in play within the rules.


[Sidetrek] I think its interesting that some posters have maintained thier knee-jerk reaction to the initial marketting mistakes {lightning rail and 'everyday magic'} and haven't taken the time to look at how it actually works out. The dreaded lightning rail is about as slow as a horse drawn coach, is prone to being attacked by bandits, and major portions of the 'rail' is missing in the mists of the Mourning. Its advantage isn't speed but cargo capacity. The Airships are expensive and have this problem called 'falling off'...not something you will have in every game session unless your players want to purchase and run one like a privateer.
The thing that sold me the most on the setting was reading the excellent module 'Coils of Set' and realizing that it fit very nicely into Eberron with only minor fluff changes...actually made sense in the world. Then I did the same thing with the War of the Burning Sky campaign that I am currently running
Anyway, [/sidetrek]