Differences in powergaming in 1st/2nd and 3.0/3.5

[Hussar]

I look back in fondness to 1st Ed but there's no way level progression was faster back then. IIRC some classes needed 350,000 xp per level beyond 9th.

The OP fails to compare the edtions with regard to powergaming but I would say it's much more prevalent in 3rd. 1st Ed had more focus on roleplaying (you had to back then) rather than the rules hungry 3rd.

Count me in the "there was a story back then" group. Look at the modules of the time. Pretty much nothing but hackfests. Heck, people tout that as a great STRENGTH of 1e modules that they pretty much lacked any sort of story or plot and allowed the players great freedom.

In AD&D, it could take a year to go up a few levels. Most characters retired long before 10th level.

That's only true if you ignored the xp for gold rules. IME, PC's went up almost at the same speed in all editions - about 1 month of gaming per level. Anywhere from 3-6 sessions anyway. The difference was, your 10th level 1e character had about 1 million gp's to his name. Again, my experience with 1e was almost exclusively modules, so, YMMV.

 

[Nikosandros]

Wow! On month per level? My experience always has been completely different...

 

[molonel]

D&D has always been about killing the monsters and looting the bodies. I don't know what some of you guys are talking about.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

D&D has always been about killing the monsters and looting the bodies. I don't know what some of you guys are talking about.

It's a healthy part of a balanced campaign

 

[Graf]

Powergaming in DnD is always possible.
3e+ just makes it avaible to everyone. In the old edition there was only one way to really powergame. You played a human and carefully dualclassed your way through. So if you were playing at 15th level you would start off a 14th level ranger and 14th level mage. Then a level later you were suddenly much better than the mage with only slightly less hitpoints than the fighter. Etc. etc.

Oh or you talked your dm into letting you play some sort of abusively powerful race.

 

[Zendragon]

I look back in fondness to 1st Ed but there's no way level progression was faster back then. IIRC some classes needed 350,000 xp per level beyond 9th.

The OP fails to compare the edtions with regard to powergaming but I would say it's much more prevalent in 3rd. 1st Ed had more focus on roleplaying (you had to back then) rather than the rules hungry 3rd.

Getting the first class to about 12 or 13 and then you take your next class. At that point you are fighting 12th and 13th level monsters. So a couple of encounters and you have 10K XP. That 10,001 XP got you 4th level magic user in just a few days. 10,001 got you 5th level as thief. Not too shabby for a fews days adventuring.

 

[painandgreed]

IIRC, it took about a number of 8 hour sessions equal to current level to make next level when I played AD&D. We'd usually get to second in one sitting. Then to 3rd in two more, and etc. etc. Some more and some less. Most DMs gave XP for treasure as per rules, but different DMs gave out different amounts which controled the rate of increase. In more than one campaign, running through a published modeule was seen as a reward because the amount of treasure was far more than we were used to.

Power gaming in AD&D was mostly items. For the most part, one tenth level fighter was the same as the other, but the powergamers would have all the neat items. Magic-users allowed some powergaming via using spells in 'creative' ways according to the text that was presented in the description. This was either good playing or cheating depending on the DM and how much you screwed up his plans. To a lesser extent, there were much more ad hoc power and abilities. Dungeons tended to have magic pools where drinking from there could grant or take away stats bonus'. By weird circumstane of the adventure it might be possible to get some special power by befriending this NPC or drinking some potion. Speaking of potions, there was always the mixability table to play with.

 

[mhacdebhandia]

I think that one of the reasons I like Third Edition so much is that a myriad of classes, feats, and prestige classes is a nice balance between strict class archetypes on the one hand and point-based systems on the other.

GURPS is a point-based system which uses templates to partially appropriate the advantages of a class-based system, and I suppose I look at the proliferation of classes and other game elements in Third Edition D&D as a way for D&D to appropriate the advantages of a poins-based system.

I think D&D as currently published sits in the middle of pure-class-based and pure-points-based game systems, especially with alternate class features from sources like the Player's Handbook II and the recent Cityscape web enhancement.

To me, that's a sweet spot.

 

[jujutsunerd]

You clearly don't know how to powergame in 1E and 2E. This is how you powergame in 1E/2E.

Thank you! I remembered liking this story back in the day, but I couldn't remember it's name. It will be interesting to see if it's as funny now as it was back then.

/Jonas, wondering what his save against no-save magic is...