Different philosophies concerning Rules Heavy and Rule Light RPGs.

[Thomas Shey]

All of the effects of a weapon are reflected in the roll. What difference does it make if you lose Health because of acid or fire or blood loss? You roll the attack and then describe what it looks like, same as any other attack.

It makes a big difference if the damage is ongoing, or works better against heavily armored or lightly armored ones. If you don't understand why that can be true, you're not going to understand why lightweight games are unsatisfying to some people.

Most rules don't provide for simulating humidity or the relation between salinity and depth of a large body of water. Should they? Why or why not?

Bluntly, this is a disingenuous comparison.

Btw, bleeding is only "non-trivial" if you decide it is for your game. That's a design decision, not an a priori truth. Whether and how much something matters in real life need not have any bearing whatever on what you decide is important in your game.

But at that point you're doing exactly what I said--discarding things that matter (and in both much fiction and reality, quite a lot) for simplicity.

Added after the fact : Since I asked you for an example, it's only fair that I provide one.

If I Alice rolls 6 successes for her attack, and Betty rolls 3 for her defense, Betty loses 3 Health. Those 3 points of damage contain all of the information about the attack and this is reflected in the narration. If Alice was using a sword, then that 3 damage represents the stab or slash along with any and all effects associated with it, such as damage to armor or clothing, laceration, bleeding, and whatever else the players come up with (it could also be the case that Betty is playing an evasive character, and narrates the defense as a close call instead).

But again, no they don't. They pave over most of it, making it essentially irrelevant.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Never heard of it. What is it like?

Never heard of it? It dates back to the early 80s.

A good system, skill-based. I've only used 4e, because its a bit math-heavy, but the Roll20 support makes it a breeze to run. Excellent damage system, decent skill system. I've never used the setting itself (but I've used the concept more than once), but it has a massive variety of support rules and guidelines. For any setting from WW1 to near future, its my go-to.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Never heard of it? It dates back to the early 80s.

A good system, skill-based. I've only used 4e, because its a bit math-heavy, but the Roll20 support makes it a breeze to run. Excellent damage system, decent skill system. I've never used the setting itself (but I've used the concept more than once), but it has a massive variety of support rules and guidelines. For any setting from WW1 to near future, its my go-to.

Sounds interesting. I'm a fan of simulationist gaming. Is it on Drivethru?

 

[Jd Smith1]

It is:

DriveThruRPG

www.drivethrurpg.com

Pay what you want, at the moment.

 

[Joanna Geist]

I guess it depends on your players. I've always GM'd for adults, who don't need simple things explained to them.

So your players know what is happening in the game world without you communicating it to them?

Notice how my post said "describe", which you changed to "explain" in your reply? Why are you being dishonest?

It makes a big difference if the damage is ongoing, or works better against heavily armored or lightly armored ones. If you don't understand why that can be true, you're not going to understand why lightweight games are unsatisfying to some people.

Any attack type can have the Ongoing pro applied, regardless of damage type.

Any attack can have the Penetrating or Armor Piercing pro applied, regardless of damage type.

Lightweight games aren't missing any of the features you think they are. You just haven't ever actually tried one.

Bluntly, this is a disingenuous comparison.

Asserted without reasoning, discarded without argument.

But at that point you're doing exactly what I said--discarding things that matter (and in both much fiction and reality, quite a lot) for simplicity.

And you're missing the point. You decide what matters in your game. It isn't true a priori that bleeding matters in all games everywhere. It matters in some games, and doesn't matter in others. There is no such thing as a set of mechanics, or even a mechanic, which is good or necessary for every game.

But again, no they don't. They pave over most of it, making it essentially irrelevant.

Again, yes they do. They don't pave over anything. All of the effects mentioned can be simulated by the rules light system, as indicated above.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Any attack type can have the Ongoing pro applied, regardless of damage type.

And that often is not a satisfying answer

Any attack can have the Penetrating or Armor Piercing pro applied, regardless of damage type.

Ditto.

Lightweight games aren't missing any of the features you think they are. You just haven't ever actually tried one.

The fact you think these are the same demonstrates you don't understand what I'm talking about (and yes, I own several light games)

Asserted without reasoning, discarded without argument.

I'm not required to take the time to explain why a comparison of an apple to an a peanut is an inappropriate comparison, and I stand by the opinion that trying to do so is a disingenuous attempt to force irrelevant comparison. I don't owe you the time to do that and most likely get ignored.

And you're missing the point. You decide what matters in your game. It isn't true a priori that bleeding matters in all games everywhere. It matters in some games, and doesn't matter in others. There is no such thing as a set of mechanics, or even a mechanic, which is good or necessary for every game.

Whoever said it was? I explained why lightweight games are not going to serve everyone, and that they're not covering all the same ground from some points of view, and why that matters to some people. It was never a statement about it being a universal to every player everywhere.

Again, yes they do. They don't pave over anything. All of the effects mentioned can be simulated by the rules light system, as indicated above.

Except by the time they do so to a degree that's adequate to some of us, they're no longer light. You just don't care about the distinctions, so it seems pointless bloat to you.