Different Strokes

[Arrgh! Mark!]

I was just reading the Anime thread and a poster mentioned that there's a generation gap in RPGs - the older gamers being S+S junkies and the newer ones being anime/LOTR visual junkies.

I was just thinking - are games changing due to this generation gap? Do we have a marked explosion in a more visual game than a well scripted for the verbal game?

Being an english teacher, I can say my kids are more often than not visual in their writing and creating style. Ask them to write a story and they write what would look excellent in a movie (exploding spaceships or what not) non-visual stimulus is less exciting. The exploding spaceship thing applies - an exploding spaceship in a novel is not awe inspiring at all.

What do we think, guys? In a visual-less game, are we becoming more visual oriented?

 

[Mark CMG]

I think LotR is S&S/Heroic fiction. I'm not into anime but I know some folks older than me who are. I think there is less of a generation gap and more of a style/taste gap that modern D&D is attempting to crossover.

 

[shurai]

I was just reading the Anime thread and a poster mentioned that there's a generation gap in RPGs - the older gamers being S+S junkies and the newer ones being anime/LOTR visual junkies.

Lord of the Rings visual junkies . . . but, how can that be? The book has roughly three pictures, two of them are maps with a lot of text on them, and the third is an illustration of a door covered with writing. ; ] More seriously, I take your point. Film and television (to say nothing of video games) have grown to be more of a visual spectacle in recent years.

Still, my take on it is one of gradual change: D&D was invented only a couple of years before Star Wars was released, and the 70s were famous for their highly visceral action-adventure and disaster films. So, I think you're right, but by a matter of degree, since the 70s and 80s gamers would have already been pretty "visual" to begin with.

I was just thinking - are games changing due to this generation gap? Do we have a marked explosion in a more visual game than a well scripted for the verbal game?

Being an english teacher, I can say my kids are more often than not visual in their writing and creating style. Ask them to write a story and they write what would look excellent in a movie (exploding spaceships or what not) non-visual stimulus is less exciting. The exploding spaceship thing applies - an exploding spaceship in a novel is not awe inspiring at all.

What do we think, guys? In a visual-less game, are we becoming more visual oriented?

I dunno, I think kids are going to produce kid-writing. Fifty years ago I'm sure teachers lamented their students' immature writing -- full of cowboys and indians and shoot-outs, or possibly ray guns and flying saucers.

I've read several very good science fiction novels that feature an extremely visceral, kinetic, and primarily visual writing style. Early Stephenson, or William Gibson, for instance. Exploding spaceships can be pretty interesting if the author knows what he's doing, and the critics agree. Neuromancer, which does actually feature several exploding spaceships, if memory serves, won the so-called triple crown of sci-fi literature (the Hugo, Nebula, and Philip K. Dick Memorial Awards). This was in 1984 by the way.

D&D and creative writing are about imagination. "Image" is right there in the word; you can't escape it. We're primates; vision is our primary sense. Surely everyone can see that. : ' P

 

[DragonLancer]

I've been gaming since the 80's and I've always been a visual type gamer. When I'm preparing adventures and such I always invision those scenes in my head as though it was a scene from a film or TV. It makes it much easier to work with. I tend to assume that people have been doing that since the beginning.

 

[sjmiller]

Lord of the Rings visual junkies . . . but, how can that be? The book has roughly three pictures, two of them are maps with a lot of text on them, and the third is an illustration of a door covered with writing. ; ] More seriously, I take your point. Film and television (to say nothing of video games) have grown to be more of a visual spectacle in recent years.

I know you are kidding, but I can see his point about kids being heavily hooked on visual media like the LotR movies, The Matrix, 99 44/100th of all anime, and the like.

Most kids are barraged by cheap, explosion-filled, story lacking (IMNSHO) animated junk these days. They also tend to not be exposed to a lot of fiction or intellectually challenging material in any medium. Since their tastes are based on what they see and experience, of course their tastes are going to tend toward the fast, flashy, explosion-filled, visually stimulating form of entertainment. This applies to games, movie preferences, and television preferences.

At least, that is how I see it.

 

[iwatt]

They also tend to not be exposed to a lot of fiction or intellectually challenging material in any medium.

I beg to differ. Look at how complicated new shows and videogames become. Used to be that TV shows followed a single character through a very linear plot. The same could be said of older games. Newer games/shows have convoluted plots, very difficult problem solving, and you have to follow simultanus plots at the same time. I remember reading an article somewere about this phenomenon, but I can't remember were. Maybe somebody else here does.

 

[Aaron L]

"Back in my day, things were just BETTER, dangit!"


You know, there is just as much intellectually stimulating stuff coming out nowadays as there was a few decades ago, and people in 20 years will be saying the same things about the "good old days" which are now.


I don't like all anime. But saying it's all worthless crap is as incorrect as saying all sword and sorcery fiction is good. You're comparing the best of what you remember to the worst of what is current.

That's the big problem with nostalgia.


I, myself, came to D&D (and fantasy in general) through science fiction and comic books. I still haven't read a whole lot of classic fantasy. I have a few REH Conan books and just can't get through them, despite trying for the past 15 years. The Elric and Corum books I love. The Once and Future King is awesome. Apart from that, every time I try I get really bored with the stuff. .

I'm 30, so I don't know how that figures into the whippersnapper argument.


But really, some people are visual and others aren't. I'm an artistic person, I draw a lot. I am very visual. Some people aren't like that. It doesn't have anything to do with watching anime vs reading Books growing up, when I read books I visualize every character. The first step for me when creating a D&D character is making a visual for them.

I think your "visual vs verbal" model is flawed.

 

[diaglo]

What do we think, guys? In a visual-less game, are we becoming more visual oriented?

i think if you are gonna do a d02 Different Strokes rpg i'd take a strong look at another system. i don't think you are gonna be able to build your paragon Gary Coleman or Todd Bridges characters.

 

[Dragonbait]

That's the big problem with nostalgia.

I think that is exactly what is going on in this thread. I kind of actually like these threads some times. I can guage where I am on the nostalgia-meter. Makes me either feel young, or very old.

I was just thinking - are games changing due to this generation gap? Do we have a marked explosion in a more visual game than a well scripted for the verbal game?

I think the cinematic style compared to the literary style is more about story telling and pacing rather than visuals. The way the story is presented and told *is* changing. It is an inevitable part of culture. Things come and go, and the "well scripted" as compared to the "visual game" will eventually return, provided role-playing games are still around.

I know you are kidding, but I can see his point about kids being heavily hooked on visual media like the LotR movies, The Matrix, 99 44/100th of all anime, and the like.

*off-topic borderline rant* Anime seems to be the magic buzz word right now that is either hyped as the big villain or the great hero. I think you can replace "anime" with "animated show" or "cartoon" Unless, He-Man and the Masters of the Universe or Disney's Beauty and the Beast was superior in its intellectual storytelling and visuals than something like Princess Mononoke or Naruto. *off-topic borderline rant reigned in ended*

 

[Aaron L]

i think if you are gonna do a d02 Different Strokes rpg i'd take a strong look at another system. i don't think you are gonna be able to build your paragon Gary Coleman or Todd Bridges characters.

Watch'u talkin' 'bout, Willis?