Different types of magic

[RangerWickett]

You differentiate them by flavor. Keep the rules mechanics almost entirely the same, and just use the generic Mage from Natural 20 Press's "Elements of Magic." Then, dpeneding on what type of spellcasting you use, you pick the appropriate spells and give it the appropriate flavor text. Only in rare circumstances will new rules need to be introduced.

 

[kenjib]

I think that more rules are needed than just spell selection and flavor text for many of these suggestions.

Some quick examples from the above posts that really require new mechanics to capture them well: Scroll, blood, alchemy, construction, animism, ancestor, gem, carpet weaving, ghoul based, astronomy, geomancy, spell ascetics/eaters...

Okay, that's only the first five posts and I think already for more than half of the suggestions, modifications in spell list and flavor text are insufficient to do the topic justic.

A handling like Occult Lore and similar books gives it's topics is more appropriate, IMO.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

o Hammerspace - You have access to a dimension containing a theoretically unlimited arsenal. Note that this allows you to wield really, really huge hammers without size penalty.

Now THIS, I like the sound of. Mages with really big hammers, where have you been all my life?

 

[RangerWickett]

I think that more rules are needed than just spell selection and flavor text for many of these suggestions.

Some quick examples from the above posts that really require new mechanics to capture them well:

Quick overview of Elements of Magic: Depending on your caster level, you get an increasing number of spells you know and magic points that you use to cast those spells (higher level spells cost more MP to cast). So a 3rd level mage would know 12 different spells and have something like 8 magic points each day to cast them with. You don't prepare spells in advance; you just cast them when you need them. It's a lot like video game magic-users.

Scroll - You need almost no new rules from this. The spells you know represent what spells you are able to scribe on scrolls (so in case your scrolls are destroyed or stolen, you can replace them with a few hours of work). You can 'spontaneously cast' anything you know, and you just simply say that you are using scrolls instead of preparing spells in advance. The scrolls aren't expended when you cast from them. The only drawback is that it takes a move-equivalent action to draw a scroll, but the benefit is that you can cast any spell from another scroll you find, if you can read its language. The only limitation is that you can only scribe scrolls of spells you know.

Blood - You say, "I slit open my palm and drip my blood in the Pattern of the Mind, to charm the prisoner before me." Maybe have a handful of optional rules like, if you have a sample of the target's blood, you get a +2 bonus to your spell DC, and that you can inflict damage to yourself to gain 1 bonus MP for each HP of damage you deal to yourself.

Alchemy - This depends on what you want 'alchemy' to mean. It's pretty low-level magic overall. Hmm, I think we might want to include rules in the updated version of EoM about spending a long time casting a spell to reduce its MP cost.

Construction - You let characters start off with Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms & Armor, and Craft Wand at 1st level, and limit them so they cannot cast spells normally, and must only make magic items.

I have a final exam to work on, though, so I gotta go.

 

[kenjib]

Quick overview of Elements of Magic: Depending on your caster level, you get an increasing number of spells you know and magic points that you use to cast those spells (higher level spells cost more MP to cast). So a 3rd level mage would know 12 different spells and have something like 8 magic points each day to cast them with. You don't prepare spells in advance; you just cast them when you need them. It's a lot like video game magic-users.

Scroll - You need almost no new rules from this. The spells you know represent what spells you are able to scribe on scrolls (so in case your scrolls are destroyed or stolen, you can replace them with a few hours of work). You can 'spontaneously cast' anything you know, and you just simply say that you are using scrolls instead of preparing spells in advance. The scrolls aren't expended when you cast from them. The only drawback is that it takes a move-equivalent action to draw a scroll, but the benefit is that you can cast any spell from another scroll you find, if you can read its language. The only limitation is that you can only scribe scrolls of spells you know.

Blood - You say, "I slit open my palm and drip my blood in the Pattern of the Mind, to charm the prisoner before me." Maybe have a handful of optional rules like, if you have a sample of the target's blood, you get a +2 bonus to your spell DC, and that you can inflict damage to yourself to gain 1 bonus MP for each HP of damage you deal to yourself.

Alchemy - This depends on what you want 'alchemy' to mean. It's pretty low-level magic overall. Hmm, I think we might want to include rules in the updated version of EoM about spending a long time casting a spell to reduce its MP cost.

Construction - You let characters start off with Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms & Armor, and Craft Wand at 1st level, and limit them so they cannot cast spells normally, and must only make magic items.

I have a final exam to work on, though, so I gotta go.

Yeah, the rules adaptations could be minor like you mention, although I still think slightly more extensive changes would make such a class more interesting, myself. I was just saying that there needs to be *something* there. You seem to agree with me, as all of your examples above have a few rules thrown in.

Another thing I would like to mention is that, while Elements of Magic is a really cool system and would work well with these ideas, there is no reason why basing these classes off of Elements of Magic would be any better than basing these classes off of the sorcerer or wizard (choose depending on whether or not you want the caster to rely on spellbooks).

You could also base these classes off of the psionic mana system, sovereign stone magic mechanics, mongoose's chaos magic, etc. It would all work just as well, just depending on what magic system you prefer. One benefit of some of these systems, like Elements of Magic, Chaos Magic, and Sovereign Stone, is that there are tools to help you design spells and balance them more easily than the "eyeballing it" approach of standard D&D and psionics.

 

[Azure Trance]

Tallying list and stuff (like styles of magic covered by other books if you want rules for them). I took out the ones that were redundant (ie, two people mentioned Shadow)

Anime Kidd

• Seasonal: A bizarre form of magic based around the four seasons of spring, summer, autumn, and winter.
• Themed magic that changes spell lists as times progresses
• Scroll: Solely relying on using scrolls for magic.
• Reminds me a lot of T&B Candle Caster, perhaps could be used as a basis?
• Woodland: A mix between elemental and nature/druid magics.
• Perhaps a new spell list is all that would be required
• Demon/Diabolism: Summon and bind extra-planar creatures.
• Lots of sources, there's the fiendskin or something from T&B, and the one from Armies of the Abyss, etc
• Shadow: My version where they use darkness-, shadow- and cold-, and negative energy-based spells.
• Shadow Magic, or Shadow Weave, is covered in Forgotten Realms
• Blood: Using blood to cast spells.
• Blood Magus from T&B could be used to make it a core class
• Alchemy
• I think this is covered in one of the PrC's from Magic of Faerun; if not I know I've seen a Potion-Class somewhere before

Terraism

• Construction - The creation of items of power.
• Artificer I think covers this from Magic of Farun
• Fate Weaver - Someone who can see the strings of fate and twist them, the subtle magic of probability
• Class straight from T&B; plug n play

kenjib

• Fortune Teller - Someone who can see the future through various means (such as palmistry, astrology, or a deck of cards), providing effects such as predicting the future or granting bonuses/penalties for the day
• I think Relic and Rituals 2 and/or Occult Lore covers a Fortune Teller / Astrology type magic.
  Animism - The animist calls upon various spirits to achieve his effects, to whom he must make sacrifices of various sorts.
• Mongoose Publishing Shaman covers this, though they used the word interchangably with Totem
• Ancestor - Calls upon the power of ancestral spirits to do their bidding.
• Perhaps just use the similar system of Animism with that?

wallshot

• Rune Magic- ancient alphabet of the Old Gods, while each "letter" has its own power, when "words" or "sentences" are formed, true power and str are revield
• Straight from Magic of Faerun
• Gem- each gem has its own inate power, but only thru the proper rights and rituals can these powers be brought to the surface. These gems have varying degrees of power, based on 1) quality of gem and 2) understand and ability of user
• Ehm ... idea from MoF, but I'm sure it could be changed to scale and make it more thorough and cooler

Dr. Strangemonkey

• genie based magic-summoning and commanding same getting spells through them
• Em, not familiar at all with Al-Qadim but could be as small as flavor text to something much grander
• Carpet weaving magic: able to create huge amounts of very complex weaving based magic, watch out for a room full of tapestries or a man who's prayer rug seems too elaborate
• No idea
• ghoul based magic: negative energy junkies, fairly hostile to undead since they can basically eat them up
• Necro-specialist?
• astronomy based magic: basically hooking your metamagic feats on certain star configurations and charts
• Mongoose released a book called Star Magic or something which deals with magic and the stars in alignment as does Occult Lore
• optic magic: lensmen! Only mystical and a lot less all powerful
• No idea
• geomancy
• Occult Lore has rules for Geomancy, to a lesser extent so does WOTC at the Master of the Wilds
• Spell Ascetics/Eaters: incorporate spells into your physical form and ascetic practices.
• I think I saw a prestige class for this in Mongoose Ultimate Prestige Class book, something of a combo of spellcaster and monk
• clockwork mages: so many versions of these
• Perhaps Artificer again from MoF?

Anime Kidd

• Sand Magic: Magic revolving around sand and desert spells.
• Simply new spell list if even

NoOneofConsequence

• Card based magic - similar to scrolls but using an enchanted deck of cards for a spell focus. Specific hands must be dealt for each spells - spellcraft and gambling are important skills.
• I really like this one, but don't know what a subsitute for it could be
• mandalas/sand wheels/pattern magic - magic forces can be manipulated by the drawing/crafting of intricate patterns in the appropriate materials.
• Example of perhaps Rune Magic, except that would be pattern magic on stone only?

kenjib

• Magic based around mutating and breeding new aberrations to serve the magi's nefarious purposes...
• Saw a similar prestige class to this in Mongooses Ultimate PrC Book. More like Frankenstien, but you could create new guardians for you that lived for a short while. Could be changed with some effort.

s/LASH

• Sympathetic Magic, where you use items from your target and little props to cause really big problems - drop a lizard onto a wax mannequin with your target's hair on it, and watch the poor sucker get attacked by a dragon for no apparent reason.
  [*]Occult Lore!
  [*]Granted Magic, which is very similar to divine spells - you have a liege who keeps track of you in vague terms and can cast spells through you. You have to draw the liege's attention through ritual (the spell incantation), and gain the ability to handle the magical forces you channel or risk magical burn.
  [*]I don't know if I've seen it covered anywhere.
  [*]Technomancy - you have a number of technological artifacts, but you have an instinctive psychological inhibition against using them because they're so powerful.
  [*]Like an artificer, but not as sucky? Or TechSmith perhaps
  [*]Ki - or 'bursts of self-knowledge', in this case. You are able to bring out the best in yourself, but most of the time you're about as useless as a normal mage.
  [*]Hmmm ... don't know
  [*]Possessor - You can take control of other people, either putting yourself in a trance or (at higher levels) merging entirely into them. You can eventually begin to 'upgrade' the bodies you possess with better natural weapons and armour... or cause them to implode or something.
  [*]Perhaps the Mindbender PrC from T&B, except with no upgrading?
  [*]Hammerspace - You have access to a dimension containing a theoretically unlimited arsenal. The more powerful you grow, the better weapons and equipment you can pull from Hammerspace. Note that this allows you to wield really, really huge hammers without size penalty.
  [*]Is this from Planetary? Other then that, no idea.

RangerWickett

• Tattoo magic. You scribe spells on yourself, infusing your body with magical powers.
• Off hand I know Monte covers it but I don't know who else does; probably many others.

Joshua Dyal

• Naming magic: knowing the "true names" of things causes you to be able to gain power over them.
• There was a discussion about this earlier in the General Forum, some rules but not enough for a class.
• Song magic: able to influence your environment through magical song, i.e. Luthien, the Valar, etc.
• Bardic/Wizard PrC?
• Kyramus Thread magic (see Wheel of Time)
• Don't know :/
• Mana Magic (See Everquest)
• See that D20 Natural Product Elements of Magic
• Time Magic- using the knowledge of time to create effects. haste, slow are but the common examples. Applied friction hasted to a high degree and add in combustive gas=fireball.
• Flavor, or if more if needed Mongoose released a book called Chronomancy
• Astral/Ethereal Magic= travelling magic.
• Wayfinder PrC from T&B
• Parasite magic- perform a ritual that binds you to a willing orunwilling outsider and draw energy from the said outsider to create magical effects. If for some reason the outsider dies, the parasitic mage can bind another outsider by performing the ritual again.
• Could be a lot depending on what outsider, If it was Elemental for example Elemental Savant from T&B could be it, but another outsider like a Demon could be covered from the Fiendskin instead.
• Vermin magic= intrinsic magic of vermin used to cast spells. bee affinity= fly, poison, blindsight, magic missile, cat's grace, etc. Ant affinity= strength, poison, blindsight, magic fang, etc.
• Shamnistic or flavor

Anime Kidd

• Grafting: Magic based around stealing another's body parts and attach them to your own body to gain their special abilities. Think Agent A in the Men-In-Black cartoon.
• No idea
• Mentalism: Magic through the mind. Only subtle magic; no flashy spells from evocation or animating the dead, etc.
• Psionics come to mind
• Sacrifice Magic: You fuel you spells by sacrificing various living beings. Not a very 'good' style for PCs to use.
• Book of Vile Darkness has rules for this.

 

[Azure Trance]

More Magic In Occult Lore:

http://www.atlas-games.com/

Solar Hierophants embody the sun itself, becoming celestial creatures, while Lunar Mystagogues become the masters of magical secrecy, exerting their dark power over creatures of the earth and underworld.

Herbalism is the craft of the Wylderwitch and the Grand Herbalist -- the plants of the field become healing poultices and powders, magical concoctions that can extend or shorten life, or even Verdex that "bind" spells for later use.Occult Lore features Baird's Botanical, an extensive appendix describing twenty mundane and magical plants and the concoctions Herbalists can distill from them.

No one mentioned Elementalism yet, but just to be thorough

Magical Imagination gives Heraldic Wanderers the ability to construct fabulous Memory Palaces from shadow and illusion.

Oneiromancy grants access to the dream worlds where id-hounds roam, Lucid Dreamers manipulate dream reality to fit their own deepest desires, and secret knowledge or transient magic items are the treasures of a sleeping mind.

Rational Magic lets science and Logic displace the power of magic. Rationalists strip targets of their spells and special abilities with well-reasoned argument, and even cancel the effects of magical weapons and armor.

 

[Anime Kidd]

I think most of the styles here can easily be made through new spell lists or by using psionics as a basis. Some others might require more rules.

Other magic types:

O Soul Power: Kinda like the psionics/ki powers of Bison form Street Fighter.
O Dream Magic: I think someone mentioned this already, but Im not sure...

Someone mentioned Ki powers. This could be used as a sub-set of psionics based around powers that modify and enhance one's physical abilities. Might also go the DBZ/Streetfighter route with minor energy attacks.

Also...what about different ways to cast magic; like how clerics cast magic because of their faith and sorcerers and wizards have the typical words-and-gesture spellcasting?

EDIT -----

O Ship/Sea Magic: magic based around the sea and ships.

 

[Jamdin]

Here's some oddball magical elements:

Body Magic: Uses body parts to work limited magic (ie: hair, fingernails & teeth). There would be two types of sub-spells: self-body magic & other body magic. Such spells could be as follows:

1) Lengthen/Shorten Hair (by using piece of hair)
2) Lengthen/Shorten Fingernails (by using piece of fingernails)
3) Lengthen/ Shorten Toenails (by using piece of toenail)
4) Mucus Blob (use snot to create nasty creature that could wreck havoc by entering the victim's nostrils & causing sinus attack)

I could think of more gross spells but I won't write them down here but you could use your imagination

Also, has anybody used Enchanted Dice in place of the Deck of Many Spells?

 

[s/LaSH]

o Familiar Magic - The normal familiar gets upgrades with master levels. Take that one step further and make the familiar the one who does everything for the master - it's affected by spells, it grows to a massive size, and has spell lists devoted to buffing it up in new and exciting ways. I'm sure Elements could assist with this in some ways...

o Balance Magic - Nothing comes for free. If you buff up someone's Strength, they lose Constitution. If you create a fireball, you catch pneumonia. Strangely, although I didn't think so at first, this reminds me a lot of later seasons of Buffy. (Jonathan and his paragon spell, or the thaumogenetic demon from the resurrection spell spring to mind.)

Someone who's done their research into the magical properties of gems wrote the Enchiridion: Treasures and Objects D'Art, from S. T. Cooley Pulishing apparently; I've seen the teaser PDF, and it looks nice. I don't know how well suited it is to a spellcasting system, because (a) I don't have the full product and (b) the only method of empowering the various woods and minerals therein seems to be with a minor item creation feat of some kind and a small XP donation. Look around in the news archives to find it, it was linked on the front page.

Hammerspace, for those not initiated, is an anime standby; it's theorised to be where people who shouldn't own giant mallets get them when someone makes an inappropriate statement and needs to be beaten. As far as I'm aware, there's no animated precedent for even having such a dimension, but I could be wrong. (And Kidd... pardon the comment, but comparing DBZ to Streetfighter is a little harsh. Streetfighter has some nice boomy special moves, but DBZ fighting games have a button dedicated to shooting fireballs (and even bigger booms when you do the special moves). Or at least they did many years ago. I think that says it all about comparative power levels, really.)