Difficulty Numbers: Scaling, or Static?

[Pedantic]

The way 4e did this is to build a robust Skill Challenge system that allowed experts to be better at a wider array of problem solving approaches, ways to ensure that all players could participate throughout a challenge in an instrumental way, and guidance to the GM to ensure that the SCs themselves represented the characters growing in ability.

PCs are cooler because they do cooler stuff, face off against more impressive threats, and affect a wider swath of the world (and beyond). Not because they can consistently hit a DC15 on a 5+ roll.

It did no such thing, skill challenges are the antithesis of representing character growth. There's nothing aside from vague advice about how to describe things preventing a GM from representing the same obstacle at level 1 and level 15 and level 25. More importantly, there's no change in player decision making; you can't do anything in a level 15 SC that you can't also do in a level 1 SC. It's just roll a skill and try to get high, the exact same game action.

Hitting a DC 15 on 5+ is admittedly also meaningless, unless you specify what impact that has, and going from a 60% to an 80% chance to do that thing matters. Generic DCs are an even worse way of trying to cheat the same repeated gameplay loop in, because instead of hiding behind scaling math, they hide behind the GM's subjective (and often pressured) judgement of whether something is "hard" in the moment.

4e's skill challenges are entirely an attempt to have your cake and eat it, by giving players scaling numbers while resolving challenges as static checks on the backend. Mostly, they're a narrative pacing mechanism moderated by iterated gambling. At best, they're a design prompt for a GM to build a single use minigame out of.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

One problem with just rolling skill checks is - when do you stop? How often do you need to roll stealth to sneak through a town or into bandit camp or whatever? Once all together? Every few seconds (rounds, minutes, hours?).

Skill challenges create a framework to adjudicate that, and more than that, they also provide a framework to allow different approaches and represent shifts in the approach due to the story-telling of the challenge.

But I agree that if it's just a series of rolls, it might be too simplistic.
I remember vague Stalker0 had an "Obsidian Skill Challenge" system that I think added some more interesting game options, something like last-ditch effort checks.

I think maybe a more elaborate skill challenge system should have such features by default, and maybe different classes/races might add additional options as you grow in level, so you actually get a feeling that a high level skill challenge is a bit different than a low level one.

 

[Pedantic]

One problem with just rolling skill checks is - when do you stop? How often do you need to roll stealth to sneak through a town or into bandit camp or whatever? Once all together? Every few seconds (rounds, minutes, hours?).

The solution to that problem should be a design prompt, not a GM adjudication call. We don't need to build these generic system scaffolds to hang future at the table design on if we actually fully design skill systems to begin with.

 

[JohnSnow]

Scenario 1: Two characters walk up to a cliff together. One character is level 1, the other is level 10. The cliff is described as being 'difficult' to climb. Both characters must climb it. What is the DC?

Nothing else mentioned, I’d say DC 15 is a good number for “Difficult.”

Scenario 2: A character climbs the cliff at level 1. The DC is 15. He returns to the same cliff when he is level 10. The cliff has not changed. The circumstances and conditions are identical to when he last climbed it. What is the DC?

Given those parameters, it’s still 15.

Scenario 3: A level 1 character has high Strength modifier, focus in Climbing skill, and has the Mountaineering background. Your character is a level 10 something with no Strength modifier, zero skill points in Climbing, and has the Bookworm background. Which character should find it easier to climb the cliff?

This is the problem with not tracking skill at all, or worse, tying it entirely to level.

A skilled climber should be better at climbing than someone who’s unskilled, even if that “someone” is a high-level Archmage. Who would just circumvent the whole thing by casting fly, levitate, spider climb, or transforming himself into a mountain goat.