Dire Charge

[Tequila Sunrise]

Reasonably, if a character is able to make a full attack at the end of a charge, he/she would also be able to do so as a standard action. I can't think of any particular reason as to how this could unbalance anything, but I could be wrong. Ideas?

 

[Psimancer]

Gut reaction; No - I wouldn't allow it.

The charge portion of the action is a limiting requirement (straight line, etc).

If you allowed full attack as a standard action, then the character could take any move first...

 

[SadisticFishing]

Of course not, that's like saying that a char that can move twice their speed on a charge can move twice their speed as a move action.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Gut reaction; No - I wouldn't allow it.

The charge portion of the action is a limiting requirement (straight line, etc).

If you allowed full attack as a standard action, then the character could take any move first...

Very true. It would be easy to stipulate that a character can only move in a straight line while moving/full attacking, so keep the criticisms coming!

 

[Machiavelli]

Hm, I don't think I like the premise of this thought exercise, because the ability to make a full attack at the end of a charge is highly situational. If a character has this ability, he is either a monster (with the special ability Pounce or whatnot), or otherwise is using a feat. The only feats I recall that offer this ability do so situationally, such as "Catfolk Pounce", which is limited to a very specific level-adjusted race, and only applies to flat-footed opponents.

More specifically, allowing a move action with a full attack means that with Spring Attack a character could move-attack-move. This is, of course, a VERY powerful ability, which is partially replicated by the string of Bounding Assault (et al) feats in the PHB2. Replacing all of those very-high-level feats with one feat is, in my estimation, generally a bad idea.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Hm, I don't think I like the premise of this thought exercise, because the ability to make a full attack at the end of a charge is highly situational. If a character has this ability, he is either a monster (with the special ability Pounce or whatnot), or otherwise is using a feat. The only feats I recall that offer this ability do so situationally, such as "Catfolk Pounce", which is limited to a very specific level-adjusted race, and only applies to flat-footed opponents.

Yes, this option is highly situational, but then again Dire Charge is an epic feat. I'm adjusting this feat because it bugs me that it's so limited. If I can take the equivalent of a full round action and two move actions (Dire Charge as part of a charge), why can't I take the equivalent of a full round action and a single move action (Dire Charge as I would have it)?

More specifically, allowing a move action with a full attack means that with Spring Attack a character could move-attack-move. This is, of course, a VERY powerful ability, which is partially replicated by the string of Bounding Assault (et al) feats in the PHB2. Replacing all of those very-high-level feats with one feat is, in my estimation, generally a bad idea.

Right you are. So here is my revised Dire Charge, which does not step on Bounding Assault's toes; poke as many holes in it as you can.

Dire Charge allows two options:
1. The option presented in the ELH.
2. As a full round action, you can make a full attack and move up to your base speed in a straight line. If you use this option, you cannot modify your movement in any way such as by Hiding, Moving Silently or Tumbling.

Neither option is actually a full attack, so you cannot use attacks derived from anything other than your base attack bonus, such as from the haste spell or by wielding a secondary weapon, unless you would normally be able to gain such attacks as part of a charge or standard action.

 

[ElectricDragon]

Or you could take 4 levels of Psychic Warrior, pick up the power: Psionic Lion's Charge, take the feats: Speed of Thought and Psionic Charge and get to charge and do a full attack as well as make up to a 90 degree turn durning the charge. If not using the turn, you get a +10-ft. insight bonus to your speed.

4 levels, not epic.

Ciao
Dave

 

[Darklone]

Savage Druid. Rage, full spellcasting and Wild feats for full attack charges.

 

[SadisticFishing]

None of these posts have anything to do with the question he asked, haha. But, no, in answer, Dire Charge is built the way it is on purpose, play a Swiftblade if you want to move then full attack.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Thanks, guys, but I'm not presenting this feat alteration as a player. I'm actually revamping the epic rules; perhaps I should have posted this in the house rules forum but I decided to post it here because I thought you would be more in tune with its balance issues.