Disappointed with Minis

[Malk]

BTW: I love D&D 3.0/3.5, so I'm not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I simply resorted to using cardboard counters in my campaigns. IMHO, if you're not playing out D&D 3.0/3.5 combat on some kind of battlemap (i.e. 1"=5', with either squares or hexes), and if you're not using miniatures or counters, you're not really playing D&D 3.0/3.5 the way it was meant to be played.

Ok this is just bull, my group has played dnd 3.0/3.5 since it began. We have always had a deep understanding of the combat system and rules, partly because at least half of us are rules lawyers (in a good way). We have never used a battle grid in all that time, well actualy thats not true because we tried it once. We found that the process was too much work to reproduce what we already knew. You do not need a grid or mini's to play dnd. Some people like it some people do not, occasionaly i have enjoyed the use of the grid, mostly for 15+ combatant type encounters, but let me say again...bull.

 

[Painfully]

Love them or hate them, WotC is just doing what every business demands: making a profit.

I love my glass counters. They are much easier to pick-up than paper tokens, and the many bright colors make it easy to tell the archers from the swordsmen, or ghouls from skeletons. Not to mention sorting them out after combat is a breeze, and they can be kept in a dice bag or compartmentalized box.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

The one-man verdict is in for the miniatures line. I hate it. But I don't mean I dislike the miniatures themselves; in fact, I think they're fun. I never cared to paint the metal figurines anyway. But the randomized packs are killing my enjoyment of them. I spent over $100 on expansions and I still have very few of the minis that I want. When I looked at buying specific creatures on the secondary market I saw that some were selling at prices inflated to almost $10 or more. No surprise, but really frustrating when all I want is a single (painted & plastic) fire elemental or dragon. So I gave up on them, mostly to save money and space in my little home.

Then 3.5 assumes the use of miniatures. So, in light of my experience with randomized packs, and coupled with my disinterest in collecting and painting pewter figures, my interest in the latest edition has died. Yes, I know I could play the game without the figures, and it's not too hard to alter the rules to fit my taste. In fact, it's so easy, I've realized, I don't need to buy any more books.

Anybody else have similar feelings?

I actually think they are great. I just bought a case of Dragon eye for MojoGM and we sat on the floor and opened the 16 packs that came in the case. We got almost all of this series, with a few exceptions, which will be picked up online as singles, or we'll use older pewter minis for those creatures if need be. Right now, in our games, we don't just use the new minis. We use a mix and we never painted our pewters. Yeah, they look better painted, but neither of us has the time or talent to paint them. I also use a lot of pewter fantasy figurines that were not really meant to be D&D minis.

I don't see how 3.5 assumes the use of minis. I'm sure you could play without them if it's that much of a hassle for you; or you could always use the older ones and just not paint them if that's not your cup of tea.

You have to realize that there are just some creatures that minis would never , ever get made for due to lack of demand were it not for the randomized packs. Someday you might be glad you have some of them. You never know.

Another thing to consider is trading some of your commons in for a rare on one of the sites that sells singles. Some of the commons may seem boring to you & me , but to someone who wants and army of 40 or so of the commons of one type, and has no need for a rare that has nothing to do with their game setting; they might be more than willing to trade.

I don't know. I guess I kind of understand the complaints about the randomness, but I personally think it's kind of fun.

 

[Spatula]

You have to realize that there are just some creatures that minis would never , ever get made for due to lack of demand were it not for the randomized packs.

I have a question that sort of ties into this - what's the production life of the D&D mini lines? Right now, a lot of D&D mainstays that you would have a hard time finding in metal (mind flayer, thri-kreen, etc.) can only be found in the first set, Harbinger. Is WOTC going to keep making Harbinger packs (or Dragoneye packs, etc.) for the life of the game, or are they going to be retired? If the line is being retired soon, it seems the RPG buyers are being hit by a double whammy - randomized packs and time-limited buying opportunities.

 

[Creamsteak]

Harbinger just recently stopped production, and they have massive stocks of starter sets still in thier warehouses. Dragonseye is still selling out as soon as they are shipped. This is what I've gathered from looking over a bunch of websites. I don't think they will stop production of Dragonseye till Archfiends become the mainstay of sales. I probably should pick up some more Dragonseye while they are still around, but I'm waiting for another deal on a case (I won't pay more than $6 a pack for either set).

Archfiends should be hitting shelves in a week or two, I believe. Giants is still a month off at least.

And I have to agree with the rest of the people that preach, "DnD does not require minis, never has, hopefully never will." And I run one hell of a combat intensive session at times without them.

Edit: I went to go check a couple websites, and here is what one says:

- - Wizards of the Coast has SOLD OUT of Harbinger
and will not be making any more. - -

- - Wizards of the Coast has SOLD OUT of Entry Packs
but will supply more in June. - -

-- Wizards has announced that their re-shipment of Dragoneye has been delayed once again. We recently received a small shipment but are now being told that the next Dragoneye shipment will not arrive until May. As a result, we have decided to stop taking pre-orders on Dragoneye until April. --

- - Wizards has announced that Archfiends will be allocated when released. This means that we will not initially receive all of the product that we request. As usual, we will ship on a first-ordered, first-shipped basis. - -

- - The release of Archfiends will be 3/19/04. We have not been informed of our size of our allocated "first wave" of product. However, we've been told that the "second wave" will not arrive until April. - -

 

[heimdall]

I use the minis in my 3.5 game and where appropriate, I make the minis match up. For instance, there is a good representation between Harbinger and DragonEye to cover the party for minis. But like many others here, I'm not hung up on them. We were using dice and Gameboy Color cartridges before I went out and bought the minis. The Gameboy Color cartridges were perfect to represent a large creature on my battlemat, hence they got pressed into service.

Buying the minis has also been a benefit because it's something me and my 6 year-old do together. I buy a pack and we look through them. The ones of which I know I have more duplicates than I'll ever use, I give to him. And his face lights up. He has a small white dragon, finally, and boy is he one happy camper. I have to watch him, though. He has an eye on my bugbears!

 

[Matafuego]

Well I'm very bad at describing positions and tactical movements, that's why I've pretty much always used figures or drawings of the combat encounters (my drawings filled with arrows describing movement back in 2e are famous amongst my players as is the deadly giant Hydra drawed with the position of each head ). Everi since 3e came along with it's battle grid we've found it easier... more time consuming but it helped us specially where we needed to, combat movement strategies.

Since the last years we've been using counters, dice, and even paper drawed tokens, and I've never heard of this lines of minis.

Sorry to Hijack but: Does anyone has a webpage where I can see what minis exist and maybe some pictures???

 

[heimdall]

Sorry to Hijack but: Does anyone has a webpage where I can see what minis exist and maybe some pictures???

Harbinger:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mg/20031116a

Dragoneye:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mg/20031219a

Archfiends:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mg/20040203a

 

[MerricB]

Here's a little bit of information for everyone: Last year I started a poll here on ENworld, and another one on Dragonsfoot, asking people whether or not they used miniatures or tokens when playing D&D. Now, I'll point out that ENworld is primarily 3E and Dragonsfoot's primarily 1E, so there's a big divide in many opinions about how D&D should work.

The results for those polls? Nearly identical. Between 15% and 20% of players in D&D (any edition) use no tokens or miniatures - between 80% and 85% of people in both polls use miniatures or tokens.

Wow.

Add to that the "little detail" from the WotC survey that shows that people who use miniatures with their RPGs spend a huge amount more than people who don't, and you see why Wizards have taken the line they have.

I know I've spent about 1000 Austalian Dollars so far on these miniatures, which is more than I've spent in the past two years on RPG materials.

The silly thing is this: I don't normally use miniatures or tokens in my games. About one session in 20 uses them. I'm one of the 20% who normally runs things by ear. (However, I do play the Skirmish game, which I've found to be utterly excellent).

Of course, if you do normally use miniatures or tokens, should you buy the D&D Miniatures line?

My advice is to look carefully at the commons and uncommons in each set - especially the commons. Do you actually need them? (Because that's what you'll be getting lots of).

If you see a lot of figures you want, then that's a good set to get. If you're only interested in a couple of rares, then the odds are against you. Look for a non-random alternative.

The D&D Miniatures line works best for those who run a traditional wild & woolly D&D game. Where any sort of monster might be encountered - Kuo-Toa, Drow, Elementals, Dragons, Undead. Oh, and Orcs and Goblins. Each set has a different mix of figures - look at the set lists and see if you want figures from that set.

I know that, as a RPGer, I'm not that excited about Archfiends. The monster common list is as follows: Githzerai; Dread Guard; Duergar Warrior; Snig The Axe (a goblin); Zhentarim Fighter; Gravehound; Warrior Skeleton; Cultist Of The Dragon; Cursed Spirit; Gnoll Archer and Orc Raider. The only one there I'm really interested in is the Gnoll Archer. Because I'm going to be using the set for skirmishes as well, it doesn't bother me so much, though.

But I'm not everyone. I don't think Archfiends will do as well as Dragoneye, because it's more limited in its usefulness. It seems more aimed at the FR player and Skirmish player than the general D&D role-player. I may well be mistaken.

I'll leave you with this:

Merric's Law of Miniatures: Non-Random Packaging, Cheap Prices, and a Large Range of Figures: Choose two.

Cheers!

 

[Creamsteak]

Looking over the Archfiends set, did they phase out the small bases? I don't see any minis that look like they have those halfling sized bases except snig and the two halflings...