Disappointed with Under the Eye of the Tempest - too short and expensive

[doppelganger]

I was very disappointed with the eleventh adventure. It is very short (both time wise and in page count), very predictable, and just not very good. I expected more in the penultimate adventure (especially since 10 was so good and the price is $1.00 more than most of the adventures). I almost feel like it is bait-and-switch. There is no reason for this to be a stand alone adventure. It's like a placeholder until something better comes along. I really hope 12 is better. It would be a shame for the AP to completely fizzle out at the end.

 

[Morrus]

I'm soryr to hear you didn't like it. However, we don't feel these adventures are expensive - they cost less than a couple of beers. They're priced as low as we can possibly make them, especially given how much we spend on them. It's longer than any of the Dungeon AP adventures, and there's a lot of free stuff available as well.

Heck, for subscribers these things are under $3 per adventure. Honestly, we're practically giving them away.

I personally really like the adventure; but tastes vary, of course.

 

[doppelganger]

I'm soryr to hear you didn't like it. However, we don't feel these adventures are expensive - they cost less than a couple of beers. They're priced as low as we can possibly make them, especially given how much we spend on them. It's longer than any of the Dungeon AP adventures, and there's a lot of free stuff available as well.

Heck, for subscribers these things are under $3 per adventure. Honestly, we're practically giving them away.

I personally really like the adventure; but tastes vary, of course.

I'm not a subscriber. I didn't learn about the existence of the AP until several issues had been released. I've been paying full price. I guess that makes me a chump here. Adventure 11 costs about as much as one of the issues of Dungeon magazine with an AP in it, true, but that Dungeon issue has at least two other adventures within its pages. I'm not totally put off by the price rise as the art in 11 is much superior to most prior works, but I do find it a little insulting that you are insinuating that these adventures are cheap and I shouldn't expect much from them. Compare 10 to 11. The difference in adventure quality is so drastic they seem to have been produced by different companies. I beg you to not make the same cost cutting/short page count/unimaginative errors with 12. Please end the run with a BANG! and not a whisper.

 

[Morrus]

I'm not a subscriber. I didn't learn about the existence of the AP until several issues had been released. I've been paying full price. I guess that makes me a chump here. Adventure 11 costs about as much as one of the issues of Dungeon magazine with an AP in it, true, but that Dungeon issue has at least two other adventures within its pages.

I'm sorry, but if we charge less per adventure (less RPGNow's 30%), there will be no adventures. They cost nearly $2000 each to produce.

I'm really sorry you don't feel you've gotten your money's worth, but I assure you there is no possible way we can make them cheaper.

And, again, I'm sorry you didn't like #11. I liked it, but I respect your right not to.

 

[doppelganger]

I'm sorry, but if we charge $1-$2 per adventure (less RPGNow's 30%), there will be no adventures. They cost nearly $2000 each to produce.

I'm really sorry you don't feel you've gotten your money's worth, but I assure you there is no possible way we can make them cheaper.

And, again, I'm sorry you didn't like #11. I liked it, but I respect your right not to.

I never meant to imply that you should charge $1-$2 per adventure. I was merely refuting your comparison of the AP adventures to the Dungeon AP adventures. I just think that you raised the price of the final three adventures with no warning and then lowered the page count and adventure quality of 11 to a point far below the rest of the series. I'm starting to understand from your comments that cost saving measures had to be put in place. I find that 10 (the first with the price hike) deals with its given subject in stages that have a lot of challenge and a lot of thinking requirements. 11 is a quick search and destroy. No real plot, no real discoveries to make, no clever twists, no page count. I am hoping that you do not do the same with the final adventure and then claim it was still good value for the money. Hell, I would prefer that you make it three the size of 11 and charge three times as much than repeat the mess of 11 as the end of the line. The last of the series is not the place to cut corners. I don't want to see the War of the Burning Sky turn into a repeat of the the Dragonlance series with a great beginning and middle, and a fizzle on the ending.

 

[Morrus]

As I said, I'm sorry you didn't like it; we'll have to disagree on that one. I believe the "quality" (as you put it) to be on par with the rest of the series.

#10 was fairly complex, yes, which is why #11 is a more straightforward affair. #12 will involve a mass battle. We try to make the adventures varied somewhat, with the final trilogy (which can be played in any order) presenting three very different types of adventure. So #12 won't be like #10 or #11.

 

[Rugult]

So I figure I'll give my 2 cents here. Considering it's Canadian currency I'm not sure my cents are worth much

FYI, there are spoilers in this post. Sorry, had to happen.


Regarding Adventure 11 I have a few comments. First off, I want to say it's not a terrible adventure in any terms. As far as DnD adventure quality goes, this one fits in with the vast majority of published adventures. It's by no means my favorite of the Burning Sky Series, but I am still glad I purchased it.

I would say that the adventure is worth it simply for the artwork and maps. Claudio, Hunter, Lee, and Sean have done an excellent job on bringing the imagery of this adventure to life. I've spent money on map packages before, and I would be more then willing to spend the ~$10 just for the maps and art this adventure presents.

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Now that I've said all that, let me agree with the original poster by saying that the quality of 11 is in my opinion less then some of the other adventures in the series. There are a few reasons I say this...

1. I was spoiled. I read these boards, I got a good look at the maps and imagery from Morrus' spoilers. This adventure didn't quite have the 'unknown sparkle' that the others had for me. Not a complaint, I LOVE the hype posts that Morrus has done (excellent marketing), but I'm just saying what might have influenced me.

2. The climax was less then I expected. The last fight is a bit lackluster, and I think several parties will be able to breeze through this fight with ease. Also (minor spoiler ahead) Pilus isn’t a lich. I figured that since he was described as a lich in the adventure summaries on the main page… he’d be a lich.

3. The general layout of Act One bothered me slightly. Encounter Levels are strangely absent, which is rare for the series. I did like the inclusion of the ‘Optional Encounter’ title, but found it strange that the Ogdoad encounter was built directly into the adventure when it probably has less to do with the setting then the ‘Optional Encounter’ with Caela.

4. No new ‘content’. It’s a minor squabble, but there’s a lack of new items, feats, abilities, classes, etc, etc. Mostly everything here is a re-hash of previous content and spells from old adventures.

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Ok, now that I’ve gone and said all the bad, let me summarize what I LIKE about this adventure.

1. The callbacks to earlier campaign events. Some of this is personally influenced because I did remember speaking with Ryan Nock when he was ‘breaking in’ the adventure, and we talked about including Longinus as a possible fight. The Hippogriff cavalry appearance along with their Khagan is another excellent campaign building moment.

2. The Tempest. If you don’t like the adventure, if you hate the encounters and the NPC’s, there’s still the Tempest. Having nine pages of description for this beast, allows a DM to run any kind of adventure they like with the creature. The design on this ship is fantastic, and I personally love some of the ‘backup’ plans that it has (such as how it deals with pesky intruders trying to come from the astral plane).

3. Once again… the artwork. Just awesome!

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So that’s my basic review I suppose. Again I say it’s not a bad adventure, but not as high quality as some of the previous adventures have been. I’m glad I picked it up, and I know my party will have fun running through it. That’s enough for me.

 

[Volaran]

I'm not a subscriber. I didn't learn about the existence of the AP until several issues had been released. I've been paying full price.

I think our group started purchasing the adventures just before the release of #5, and we opted for subscription. The subscription is _still_ available if the website is correct. If you've still opted to buy them one at a time, it isn't because the option of buying all of them was not available.

 

[d20Dwarf]

Thanks for the feedback!

1. I was spoiled. I read these boards, I got a good look at the maps and imagery from Morrus' spoilers. This adventure didn't quite have the 'unknown sparkle' that the others had for me. Not a complaint, I LOVE the hype posts that Morrus has done (excellent marketing), but I'm just saying what might have influenced me.

As Randy Buehler would say, "Thanks, Marketing."

2. The climax was less then I expected. The last fight is a bit lackluster, and I think several parties will be able to breeze through this fight with ease. Also (minor spoiler ahead) Pilus isn’t a lich. I figured that since he was described as a lich in the adventure summaries on the main page… he’d be a lich.

It's tough to design balanced encounters for high level parties, especially in an adventure that's designed to be taken through in one shot. It's still a fair criticism, but in my experience it's easier for a DM to beef up an encounter in a way that's tailored to his players than to tone one down. I realize I break from Paizo on this, but I'm fine with that.

3. The general layout of Act One bothered me slightly. Encounter Levels are strangely absent, which is rare for the series. I did like the inclusion of the ‘Optional Encounter’ title, but found it strange that the Ogdoad encounter was built directly into the adventure when it probably has less to do with the setting then the ‘Optional Encounter’ with Caela.

Oops on the EL, sorry. I thought Caela worked well as an optional link to the Monastery adventure, so glad you liked her.

Ok, now that I’ve gone and said all the bad, let me summarize what I LIKE about this adventure.

1. The callbacks to earlier campaign events. Some of this is personally influenced because I did remember speaking with Ryan Nock when he was ‘breaking in’ the adventure, and we talked about including Longinus as a possible fight. The Hippogriff cavalry appearance along with their Khagan is another excellent campaign building moment.

Thanks. There was a lot of information to digest in writing the 11th adventure in an AP. Nice to know I didn't screw things up too badly.

2. The Tempest. If you don’t like the adventure, if you hate the encounters and the NPC’s, there’s still the Tempest. Having nine pages of description for this beast, allows a DM to run any kind of adventure they like with the creature. The design on this ship is fantastic, and I personally love some of the ‘backup’ plans that it has (such as how it deals with pesky intruders trying to come from the astral plane).

That was the plan (not for everyone to hate all the encounters and NPCs ). I wanted that badboy to be usable in any campaign, and for years to come, not just here. Essentially I wanted to write the straightforward story adventure, and also present enough materials for DMs to take it and make it their own, or spend some time on the assault in any way the players wanted to.

So that’s my basic review I suppose. Again I say it’s not a bad adventure, but not as high quality as some of the previous adventures have been. I’m glad I picked it up, and I know my party will have fun running through it. That’s enough for me.

That's enough for me too.

 

[Rugult]

It's good to see an author who takes an replies to critiques. And I suppose I would have to say one other thing I missed above about things I did like.

In general this adventure and adventure 10 lend themselves well to modification by DMs. I would assume that a party having gamed in this campaign from adventure 1 to 11 would likely need some tailoring. I'm already noticing things I have to change and we're just at adventure 8.

I also agree it's easier to 'upscale' then downscaling. I can always throw some additional save DC's and HP on an opponent when needed.