Disarming a Bow with a Melee Weapon?

[Xarlen]

You probably figured it out by now, but he's just referring to the bonuses not stacking for purposes of defeating DR. For damage and to hit, they stack just fine.

I figured that out when I looked at the DMG exert.

That is exactly his point. It is extremely efficient for an Archer to get a +1 energy energy weapon and (have someone) GMW the arrows. The average damage goes through the roof, and the enhancement of the arrows is all that matters for DR purposes.

Well, that all depends. Considering your house rules, he could have to wait two actions to use the command words in order to activate both energies.

 

[Conaill]

If you are going with the opposed attack rolls (and I agree that "attack a held object" would be much more appropriate here), don't forget to give the archer an additional -4 penalty for using his bow as an improvised melee weapon.

And as an improvised melee weapon, you would not benefit from any of the benefits from magical arrows, dex, point blank, etc.

Interesting twist: does a +1 bow give you a +1 if you use it as a club?

PS: Just because it's a large weapon, you do NOT need two hands to hold on to it. You need two hands to shoot with it. However, after you've shot your arrow, you will typically only be holding the bow with one hand. If you want to claim that your rounds consist of "shoot, reload" instead of "load, shoot", you could argue that you have an arrow nocked, and are holding on to the bow with one hand plus 2 fingers.

 

[Metalsmith]

Re: Re: Disarming a Bow with a Melee Weapon?

Could've fooled me.
Next time you ask for input don't put down every suggestion people give you. We Gave a few rules variants and different ideas, but you didn't like any of them.

Put downs? I dont know what you mean. I didn't put anyone down, there were no "Yo Momma is Fat" references or insults. I appreciated what eveyone said and it made me take the time to research a little more carefully using the points that were brought up. Just because I think they were proven invaild does not mean I didn't find them usefull.
Variant rules: Sorry, if I wanted house rules I would have posted the questions there. But I didn't see any rules variants just a couple of different interpretations not enought to really be considered a variant.

As far as Sundering magic bows, I think its pretty easy to have an equally, if not more magical sword. Since bows don't impart the enhancement bonus to their ammo (for defeating say DR), most people save some money and get a fairly magical bow (with something like Flaming on it), and then some magic arrows (+1 or +2).

I agree it's pretty easy to have a Magic Weapon to equal or exceed the the Enhancement Bonus. But you have to consider every magical weapon you put into the hands of the opponents is a Magical weapon you are "giving" to the players. Unless its the encounter Where They All Die (I've done that a few times) or Encounters where they have a 50% chance of dying. In addition Greater Magic Weapon cast by a party member eliminates the need for Magical Arrows, freeing up cash for a more Magical Bow.

And just for the record, if your trying to take someones weapon out of thier hand, theres going to be an opposed attack roll of some sort. To do otherwise would be stupid (lvl 5 fighter disarms/sunders level 20 fighter- not happening). As it is Disarming and Sundering is too easy, making it easier is a Bad Idea.

*** making notes in the Record and glancing askance at the little straw man***
Again I agree completely about the opposed attack roll, I never denied that there wasn't one. The whole point of this thread was the opposed attack rolls and the vast advantage the archer recieves. +4 Large Weapon, + 1 Point Blank, +2 Bracers of Archery +1-5 Magic Arrows. If Sundering and Disarming is too easy...


Metalsmith

 

[Xarlen]

As pointed out several times:

A) The sage ruled that attacking a bow is like attacking an object. That's a possiblity, y'know.
B) Magical arrows really don't effect sunder/disarms. They're ammo. If I have a magical bullet in a gun, smacking the gun out of someone's hand isn't any harder.

 

[Metalsmith]

Given that the Sage has already stated that attacking a bow uses the "attack an object" rules, not the sundering rules,

Kool! this is the kind of answer I was looking for. Although I know the Sage has a habit of pulling 'stuff' out of his a$$ and packaging it up as Divinely Inspired wisdom. *** Anyone remeber the Halfling Outrider!! *** I appreciate his work and would be interested in looking at it. Is it in the FAQ or one of the numerous Dragon Magazine Articles?

Metalsmith

 

[Metalsmith]

PS: Just because it's a large weapon, you do NOT need two hands to hold on to it.

With this same idea you could be a Human Fighter with a Great Club and say you are only gripping it with 2 hands on the initiave segment when you are attacking, and use your off hand for the Deflect Arrows feat.

Metalsmith

 

[Metalsmith]

As pointed out several times:

A) The sage ruled that attacking a bow is like attacking an object. That's a possiblity, y'know.

Several?, If you count your post before you even posted it, I count 2 times. I didn't know about the Sage's rule, and I had thought since bows are listed under Martial Weapons Ranged that they were considered weapons and not attended objects, silly me.

Question: If you are Flatfooted, is the GreatClub you are carring a Weapon, or an Attended Object?

B) Magical arrows really don't effect sunder/disarms. They're ammo. If I have a magical bullet in a gun, smacking the gun out of someone's hand isn't any harder.

Unless he shoots you with the gun and that stops you from effectively disarming them. I think Failing your opposed attack roll is penalty enough without allowing the Archer/Gun Bunny to do damage to you.

Metalsmith

 

[Conaill]

With this same idea you could be a Human Fighter with a Great Club and say you are only gripping it with 2 hands on the initiave segment when you are attacking, and use your off hand for the Deflect Arrows feat.

Yes, and a mage can hold on to his staff with one hand and cast a spell with the other.

Of course, you can't change grip when it's not your turn, so the fighter holding his great club with only one hand couldn't use it for AoO's during that round.

 

[Metalsmith]

Yes, and a mage can hold on to his staff with one hand and cast a spell with the other.

Of course, you can't change grip when it's not your turn, so the fighter holding his great club with only one hand couldn't use it for AoO's during that round.

So then an Archer Can use his bow with both hands?

Metalsmith

 

[Conaill]

Question: If you are Flatfooted, is the GreatClub you are carring a Weapon, or an Attended Object?

From the FAQ: "Being flat-footed negates your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, but it does not affect your ability to make opposed rolls."

The opposed attack roll of the defender is not an actual attack, it just sets the DC for the attacker. So, even though the defender is not able to make any attacks while flat-footed, he still gets his opposed attack roll as usual.

Unless he's holding it in one hand because he's busy Deflecting Arrows, of course...

[B}Unless he shoots you with the gun and that stops you from effectively disarming them. I think Failing your opposed attack roll is penalty enough without allowing the Archer/Gun Bunny to do damage to you.[/B]

So exactly how do you imagine magical ammo helps you to hold on to your gun, without actually using the ammo? And what would happen if I have a repeating Xbow loaded with one +2 bolt, one +1 bolt and three regular bolts? And shouldn't I get that same bonus if someone tries to "attack an object" the clip of bolts? Or if someone tries to steal them from my backpack?

Seriously, Metalsmith, I think you're barking up the wrong tree here...