Disciples of Might and Wind

[Quip]

Well, I'm back after a month long hiatus, and I bring with me two of my latest creations: a much improved version of an old Fighter/Monk PrC I did, and a brand new wind-themed Monk/Rogue PrC.

Let me know what you think!

*Edit* OK, these should be my final changes to these classes. Majorly revised the DoW, movement abilities are more wuxia like and wind strike is stronger.



Disciple of Might

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d10.


Requirements:
To qualify to become an disciple of might, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Feats: Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Weapon Specialization (Unarmed)
Special: Ki Strike (Magic)


Class Skills:
The disciple of might’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Str), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Jump (Str), Listen (Dex), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points per Level: 2 + Int modifier.


BAB: Best
Fort: Good
Ref: Poor
Will: Poor


Benefits per level

1st Unarmed Strike
2nd Ki Strike (Silver)
3rd Armored Flurry
4th Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed)
5th Ki Strike (Cold Iron)
6th Armored Swiftness
7th Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed)
8th Ki Strike (Adamantine)
9th Armored Awareness
10th Ki Strike (Alignment)


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the disciple of might.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A disciple of might gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Unarmed Strike: The disciple of might treats his class levels as if they were monk levels in regards to his progression of increased unarmed damage.

Ki Strike: At 2nd level, a disciple of might's Ki strike improves so that his unarmed attacks are treated as silver weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 5th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as cold iron weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction. At 8th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of dealing damage to creatures with damage reduction and for bypassing hardness. At 10th level the disciple of might's unarmed strikes bypass all damage reduction based on alignment.

Armored Flurry: At 3rd level the disciple of might gains the ability to use their flurry of blows ability while wearing armor.

Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed): At 4th level the disciple of might gains Greater Weapon Focus (Unarmed) as a bonus feat, without needing to meet the fighter level prerequisite.

Armored Swiftness: At 6th level the disciple of might gains the ability to use their increased speed and slow fall abilities while wearing armor.

Greater Weapon Specialization: At 7th level the disciple of might gains Greater Weapon Specialization (Unarmed) as a bonus feat, without needing to meet the fighter level prerequisite.

Armored Awareness: At 9th level the disciple of might gains the ability to use their monks wisdom-based AC bonus while wearing armor.




Disciple of Wind

Alignment: Any.

Hit Die: d6.


Requirements
To qualify to become an disciple of wind, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Skills: Jump, Balance, Move Silently 10+ Ranks
Feats: Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Run
Special: Evasion, Sneak Attack +2d6, Slow Fall 20 ft.


Class Skills
The disciple of wind’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Balance (Str), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Ecape Artist, Hide (Dex), Jump (Str), Listen (Dex), Jump (Str), Move Silently (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), and Tumble (Dex).

Skill Points per Level: 6 + Int modifier.


BAB: Good
Fort: Poor
Ref: Good
Will: Poor


Benefits per level

1st Monk Abilities, Wind Strike (Attack)
2nd Improved Evasion, Wind's Embrace (Slow Fall)
3rd Sneak Attack +1d6
4th Wind Strike (Stun)
5th Wind's Embrace (Light Step)
6th Sneak Attack +2d6
7th Wind Strike (Disrupt)
8th Wind's Embrace (Weightless)
9th Sneak Attack +3d6
10th Wind Strike (Wave)


Class Features
All of the following are class features of the disciple of wind.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: A disciple of wind gains no weapon or armor proficiencies.

Monk Abilities: A disciple of wind treats her levels as if they were monk levels in regards to her progression of flurry of blows, AC bonus, increased speed, and slow fall abilities. Each level of this class also increases her uses of the stunning fist ability by one.

Wind Strike: Starting at 1st level, a disciple of wind learns to create a shockwave of energy through the air to attack opponents. This is effectively a ranged unarmed attack action, with a range of 15ft. Each use of this ability costs one daily use of her stunning fist ability.

At 4th level this ability improves, allowing a disiple of wind to create a shockwave that automatically affects a target with stunning fist up to 15 ft away, without the need of an attack roll. The fort save to resist is the same as a normal stunning blow attempt. This form of wind strike costs 3 uses of stunning fist to use.

At 7th level the disciple of wind can create a more powerful version of her ranged stun ability, that damages its target with disruptive forces. If the target fails its saving throw against the stunning fist effect, it also suffers sneak attack damage. This form of wind strike costs 5 uses of stunning fist to use.

At 10th level the disciple of wind can create a wave that can disrupt multiple targets. A creatures within a 15ft cone must make a fort save as if against sunning fist, those who fail are affected by both the stun effect and are dealt sneak attack damage.

Improved Evasion: At 2nd level, a disciple of wind’s evasion ability improves. She still takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth she takes only half damage on a failed save. A helpless disciple of wind does not gain the benefit of improved evasion.

Wind's Embrace: A disciple of wind can catch onto the wind, granting her special abilities. At 2nd level she can use the wind to slow her decent, allowing her slow fall ability to work even when no wall is present.

At 5th level the disciple of wind can move with only lightly touching the ground, spending half the time gliding through the air. Travelling this way allows her to ignore movement penalties due to enviornment, provides a +5 bonus to jump, balance and move silently checks, and adds +5 DC to any attempts to track her.

At 8th level disciple of wind can move while hardly ever actually touching the ground, and when she does she need not exert any weight. Moveing this way does not trigger pressure sensitive traps, and can tread accross any physical surface, even water. Bonuses to skills increase to +10, and attempts to track her increase to +10 DC.

Winds embrace functions with the same restrictions as evasion.

Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 every third level (3rd, 6th, and 9th). If a disciple of wind gets a sneak attack bonus from another source the bonuses on damage stack.

 

[rkanodia]

Disciple of Might: IMHO, this guy is way overpowered. He will do more unarmed damage, with higher attack bonus, than a pure monk. And he gets to do it wearing armor. Also, a regular monk gets to bypass magic, lawful, and adamantine damage types. This guy gets all that, plus silver, cold iron, chaotic, good, and evil, meaning that you'll never have to spend money on a magic kama ever again. It's just too much. Basically, you've traded in all of the 'flavor' powers of the monk for pure combat ability.

Disciple of Wind: I would spread out the movement abilities more, and start them earlier. Also, some of that was a bit unclear. I'm too tired to really evaluate this class. Sorry.

 

[Quip]

He will do more unarmed damage, with higher attack bonus, than a pure monk.

The idea behind the DoM wasn't for it to really be much in the way of a monk, but rather an effective unarmed fighting specialist. As such, its unarmed strike is supposed to be better than a monks, more on par with a weapon specialist fighter. I figure the few extra points to hit is a nice balance against the loss of feats and the crummy crit.

And he gets to do it wearing armor.

Monks can do that damage in armor, he just gets less penalties at higher levels. He can use armor so he can go toe to toe with most enemies, something a monk can hardly ever do, but is the norm for a fighter-type.

Also, a regular monk gets to bypass magic, lawful, and adamantine damage types. This guy gets all that, plus silver, cold iron, chaotic, good, and evil, meaning that you'll never have to spend money on a magic kama ever again.

Unless he wants a flaming weapon. Or a bane weapon, or ghost touch, or a holy weapon that does more vs evil than just beat DR. Seriously, the DR isn't that big of a deal, his biggest advantage is that he can beat on anybody without worrying about a few points of DR. Which is exactly the effect I wanted.

Basically, you've traded in all of the 'flavor' powers of the monk for pure combat ability.

I dont consider an extra 30 ft of movement, improved evasion, extra stunning blows, self healing, poison and disease immunity, SR, or teleportation to be 'flavor' powers.


I'll agree though, it is a bit much when you factor in the hightened flurry ability with the better hit bonus, now that I consider what could be done with a wounding kama. I'll remove the progression of the flurry of blows ability, so it stays at one extra attack at a -2 penalty. That makes the Armored Flurry ability no so powerful, and more like the other two in that that allow armor use with abilities that otherwise don't progress.

Disciple of Wind: I would spread out the movement abilities more, and start them earlier. Also, some of that was a bit unclear.

Theres really only two abilities, I tried to come up with an appropriate third but couldn't think of anything. I'll see if I can come up with something appropriate.

I didn't explain it very well, I admit. I'll redo the explanations and space it out a bit more. Until then, heres a simple summary:

Wind Strike lets you make ranged unarmed attacks, at a cost of one use of stunning blow every time you do. You get everything with this attack that a normal unarmed strike gets, including increased damage dice and the ability to channel stunning blows. It starts with a range of 5ft, increasing to 10ft and 15ft with level. At 10th level you can do what is effectively a cone shaped stunning blow.

Wind's Emrace is two abilities: the first lets you slow fall with noting but air, the other lets you use your extra movement to glide around like in Croutching Tiger, Hidden Dragon. If you can fly (by magical or normal means), then the first ability increases your manuverability, and the second lets you add your increased speed to your fly speed.


Anyone have better ideas for how to handle these classes? The flavor of the abilities is a bit weaker than I wanted, and the prereqs leave something to be disred as well.

Alternates are good too, any other kind of fighter/monk or rogue/monk concepts out there?

 

[Nifft]

I've got Rogue/Monk, Cleric/Monk and Paladin/Monk PrCs here:

http://klimt.cns.nyu.edu/~fishman/DnD/prc.shtml

Suggestions on your PrCs:

DoM: nix the armor, and instead give a faster AC Bonus progression -- say, 3/4 DoM level (+0 to +7). Armor is un-Monk-ish.

Also, how about instead of focusing on Unarmed attacks, focusing on Monk weapons. That way, he's more of a Monk/Fighter hybrid -- no armor, monk weapons, but actually using a weapon. He'd need Weapon Focus in a bunch of monk weapons, and he'd get free Weapon Specialization, GWF and GWS (again, in all monk weapons).

Finally, why a bad Will save?


DoW: weak, but interesting. Check out the Fist of the Silver Path (on the web page above). Also, glance at the Stormlord. It would be substantially improved by having better saves.

Note that in 3.5e not all Monks will have Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. Perhaps it should be a prereq.

-- N

 

[Quip]

Nice set of PrCs, they look really good. Some are a bit more setting/religion specific than what I'm going for, but I like them too. My favorite is the Stormlord.

What can I say, I wanted an armored fist fighter, not so much a tough monk. Also, I wanted the PrC to be effective for lower wis character types, who put their good scores in Str and Con. The low will save is there because the class represents training only the body, not the mind. And because I wanted it to be a distinctly "fighter type" class.

I really like your other idea, the weapon specialist monk. That combined with the higher AC bonus could be a good counterpart to this class. Have to think of some unique abilities for it though, hmm...


I'm redesigning the DoW a bit, should be much better. Wind Fist gets an upgrade, and the movement abilities get expanded. And Stunning Fist *was* a prereq, I don't know what happened there.

 

[Nifft]

What can I say, I wanted an armored fist fighter, not so much a tough monk. Also, I wanted the PrC to be effective for lower wis character types, who put their good scores in Str and Con. The low will save is there because the class represents training only the body, not the mind. And because I wanted it to be a distinctly "fighter type" class.

The way I see it, Fighter = Armor & Weapons, while Monk = Naked & Unarmed, so a combo is going to have either armor or weapons, but not both.

Frankly, given what I've seen in movies & read in books, I think that an un-armored weapon guy is a lot more plausable than a guy wearing armor who uses his fists. Since a lot of armors come with gauntlets, spiked gauntlests or even armor spikes, I just don't see how you can be in heavy armor and not armed.

Perhaps a PrC that allows a Monk to use his Monk abilities in light armor, but with an arcane spell failure chance for Stunning Fist and the like?

Sorry, I just can't see a Monk in armor heavier than a chain shirt.

-- N

 

[Quip]

I wanted to try and make an armored fist fighter, and what I have here is as good as I can do. You could say it can't have guantlet using armor, or limit it to medium or light armor if you really wanted to, but I dont think its necessary.
Actually, as the rules stand a regular fighter monk can don full plate and still take advantage of his strong unarmed damage. This PrC just lessens the other penalties of doing that.

Whether the concept is or isn't plausable is up to whoever wants to allow it in their game, but thats really a different subject. Thanks for the input though.

In fact, you gave me another idea: a fighter who specializes in guantlets, armor and shield spikes. Opponents can tell if theyre fighting a living being or some kind of metal demon. Hehehe, I like it. Not a monk in any way, but a cool idea for a fighter PrC.

That and the monk weapon specialist are two good ideas you gave me, thanks.

Oh and what do you think of the DoW revision? Did I overdo it with the cone of stunning fist/sneak attack?

 

[Nifft]

Whether the concept is or isn't plausable is up to whoever wants to allow it in their game, but thats really a different subject. Thanks for the input though.

Oh and what do you think of the DoW revision? Did I overdo it with the cone of stunning fist/sneak attack?

Does the final power -- Stunning Cone -- cost 7 Stunning Attack attempts? That would be a fair trade-off, and matches the progression. Oh my, I just saw the d6 HD. That, coupled with the poor saves, makes this a weak class. I think that, seeing as you're giving up SR, Teleportation and other cool high-level Monk goodness, you ought to compensate this guy better.

Honestly, a Cone of Stun that's only 15 feet long at what, 17th level? That he can only do twice per day? That's not too strong... that's too weak. Consider what a 17th level Wizard can lay down (Meteor Strike) or what a 17th level single-class Monk gets (SR 27, Tongues, Adamantine unarmed strikes -- he can rip a Golem to shreds with his bare hands!).

As to the Disciple of Might -- hey, I am trying to help -- but I'm limited by what I can envision. I think that a PrC for Fighters who like spiked armor would be very cool, especially if it allowed them to do cool tricks with specialty items like Demon Armor.

Here's my quick-n-dirty(tm) attempt:


Spike Pugilist

Role: Melee Specialist

Prerequisites:
- BAB: 4+
- Feats: Weapon Focus (Armor Spikes), Weapon Specialization (Armor Spikes)


Class Benefits:
- HD: d10
- BAB: Full (as Fighter)
- Good Save: Fortitude / Bad Saves: Reflex, Will
- Skill Points: 2 + Int bonus
- Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Swim (Str)

[u]
Level	BAB	Fort	Ref	Will	Special Abilities[/u]
1	+1	+2	+0	+0	Defensive Stance (+2)
2	+2	+3	+0	+0	Flurry of Spikes (-2), Hard to Handle (+2)
3	+3	+3	+1	+1	Augmented Damage (+1)
4	+4	+4	+1	+1	Flurry of Spikes (-1)
5	+5	+4	+1	+1	Defensive Stance (+4), Hard to Handle (+4)
6	+6	+5	+2	+2	Flurry of Spikes (-0)
7	+7	+5	+2	+2	Augmented Critical
8	+8	+6	+2	+2	Flurry of Spikes (2 Attacks), Hard to Handle (+6)

Special Abilities:

• Defensive Stance (Ex): Against unarmed strikes and natural weapons, the Spike Pugilist gains the indicated bonus to his AC, due to his uncanny ability to maneuver his armor spikes between himself and incoming blows.
• Flurry of Spikes (Ex): When using the Full Attack action, the Spike Pugilist may make an extra attack at the expense of accuracy. She gains an extra attack at her highest BAB, but takes a -2 penalty to all attack rolls until her next action (this includes attacks of opportunity). At 4th level, this penalty is reduced to -1, and at 6th level, the penalty is removed. Finally, at 8th level, the Spike Pugilist gains two extra attacks when using the Full Attack action.
• Hard to Handle (Ex): Due to skillful use of armor spikes, the spike pugilist gains the indicated bonus to all grapple checks. This stacks with the bonus provided by Improved Grapple.
• Augmented Damage (Ex): The spike pugilist has learned to use his spikes very effectively, and they inflict an additional point of damage with each successful strike.
• Augmented Critical (Ex): The spike pugilist gains +1 to the Crit multiplier of his armor spikes.

-- N