Walking Dad
First Post
But they haven't access to magic themselves, either. Fighting elfs and dwarfs isn't a big changing factor, as the races themselves are not stronger than humans.
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Discussion of Scotley's upcoming 4e Swashbuckler Game
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But they haven't access to magic themselves, either. Fighting elfs and dwarfs isn't a big changing factor, as the races themselves are not stronger than humans.
It doesn't have to be either-or either. We can specify any level of "unifying imperial incorporating influence" we want for any given region of the map, from 'none' up to 'totally dominated by.'
I definitely agree there are upsides to having some kind of unifying influence though...it gives the lands some cultural, linguistic, and theological common points to build from. Makes gaming a lot simpler if every city doesn't have its own unique pantheon...and if there's a Latin-esque language that's transnational in character, even if not widely known outside educated strata of society.
I definitely agree there are upsides to having some kind of unifying influence though...it gives the lands some cultural, linguistic, and theological common points to build from. Makes gaming a lot simpler if every city doesn't have its own unique pantheon...and if there's a Latin-esque language that's transnational in character, even if not widely known outside educated strata of society.
Walking Dad
First Post
The drow were never conquered. Others thought they were, but they controlled and destroyed invaders from within.
I vote for Dragonborn to be our Romans
(Who was from our Italy variant?)
I vote for Dragonborn to be our Romans
(Who was from our Italy variant?)
Insight
Adventurer
The drow were never conquered. Others thought they were, but they controlled and destroyed invaders from within.
I vote for Dragonborn to be our Romans
(Who was from our Italy variant?)
That would make Dragonborn really, really common. I envisioned Humans as our "Romans".
BTW, my take on the Romans was based on their technological superiority making it easier for them to conquer people. You're right, elves and dwarves are equal with humans in that regard, which is totally different from the situation that allowed the Romans to conquer nearly all of the known world. It is exactly that superiority that doesn't exist in our alt-Europe that causes the problem. Unless we either say that our "Romans" didn't conquer everything OR they have something else that gives them an edge.
The thing is, using Europe as a basis for the game world is fine until you start messing with things. Europe is the way it is (and was the way it was) because of what came before. When you start messing with that history, you change not only what happened but why it happened. Europe would be totally different without the Romans conquering nearly everything. For example, Latin might not have become the de facto "Common" language (at least of the educated). Rome falling apart might not have caused the Dark Ages. Rome might not have spread Christianity throughout the continent. The Middle Ages would have been totally different. And the Renaissance. And this doesn't even bring the Mongols into the discussion, or the Black Death, the Crusades, the rise of guilds and a middle class, and so forth. These things build upon each other.
The beauty of using races as cultures, as we have proposed doing, is that it allows for different races to exist without really messing up the historical aspects of using an alt-Europe. If you can correlate humans to romans (or even greco-romans), dwarves to vikings, elves to gauls, drow to moors, and so forth, you really don't need to change a whole lot else.
Or we can just not worry about it and handwave everything =)
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Rhun
First Post
Walking Dad
First Post
I would prefer something more European for them. Don't get fooled by the skin color.
renau1g
First Post
There is nothing better than a strong dose of handwavium!
Well, except beer.
stonegod
Spawn of Khyber/LEB Judge
I like the idea that the drow are outcast or generally unwelcome (fits with their general racial flavor). So if you prefer less Moorish, we either have the "Jew" ethnicity (though that's less unwelcome and more occasionally mistrusted) or the "Roma".
Insight, you are correct...but not entirely correct. Or rather, I think your interpretation makes our jobs harder than it absolutely has to.
For one thing, we don't have to explain everything. For example, if the Human Empire didn't conquer Avalon, we don't have to know precisely why. Nor do we have to specify the ripples of that alteration in exhaustive detail up the timeline. That level of detail is 99% likely never to be needed in the game, and if it is, we can make something up on the spot.
My thought was that the Humans failed to conquer Avalon because when they crossed the channel to Caledoia, Avalon wasn't there. It was just a big misty patch of ocean. So they squabbled with the dwarves of Alba, installed some colonists and garrisons, and went on their merry. Then Avalon emerges from the mists of the Feywild, and eladrin cross to Calednia with fey magicks and gish swordmages and reconquer the island up to Alba...where the dwarves dig in and hold them off...just like they did against the humans. Then elves are just eladrin who were concieved and born away from Avalon, in Caledonia. Less magickal in nature, a tich more mortal...for better and worse.
But the important part of all that is that we don't need to take that and say "But if England was taken back from the Romans then they'd never have..." etc etc. We can design the setting so that it's start condition...ie, it's condition at the start of the game...is exactly what we want it to be. Then we can backbuild the history from there.
And if there's weird spots that seem implausible, or where things don't seem to fit...that's fine. Real history is like that too. The important thing, for our purposes, is that we wind up with the world we want. So lets -start- with that, and work out why it became that way, rather than start in prehistory and try to nudge the rolling ball of history this way and that, trying to get it to hit the peg.
For one thing, we don't have to explain everything. For example, if the Human Empire didn't conquer Avalon, we don't have to know precisely why. Nor do we have to specify the ripples of that alteration in exhaustive detail up the timeline. That level of detail is 99% likely never to be needed in the game, and if it is, we can make something up on the spot.
My thought was that the Humans failed to conquer Avalon because when they crossed the channel to Caledoia, Avalon wasn't there. It was just a big misty patch of ocean. So they squabbled with the dwarves of Alba, installed some colonists and garrisons, and went on their merry. Then Avalon emerges from the mists of the Feywild, and eladrin cross to Calednia with fey magicks and gish swordmages and reconquer the island up to Alba...where the dwarves dig in and hold them off...just like they did against the humans. Then elves are just eladrin who were concieved and born away from Avalon, in Caledonia. Less magickal in nature, a tich more mortal...for better and worse.
But the important part of all that is that we don't need to take that and say "But if England was taken back from the Romans then they'd never have..." etc etc. We can design the setting so that it's start condition...ie, it's condition at the start of the game...is exactly what we want it to be. Then we can backbuild the history from there.
And if there's weird spots that seem implausible, or where things don't seem to fit...that's fine. Real history is like that too. The important thing, for our purposes, is that we wind up with the world we want. So lets -start- with that, and work out why it became that way, rather than start in prehistory and try to nudge the rolling ball of history this way and that, trying to get it to hit the peg.
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