Discussion on +x magic items

[AllisterH]

Well, that I agree with. I wouldn't mind a general lowering of magic item availability.

I'm trying to run a low-magic game right now, so we'll see how it works...

No offense to you personally, but I think wha tI said before OBVIOUSLY needs to be beat into people's head.

The problem isn't magic items, the problem is MAGIC itself.

Strip a 20th level wizard of magic items and all you've done is lower his stamina. Pretty much EVERYTHING he could do before with magic items can be replicated by spells. Sure, it takes him longer pre-battle to get all the spells going but in terms of capability?

He still has access to 9th level magic et al. He can still fly. He can still affect monstes. In short, he can still be a contribution to the party.

Strip a 20th level warrior of magic items and you absolutely cut him off at the knees.

Unless you're rejigging the magic using classes, NEVER focus on the magic item problem.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

I would much rather that magic items were not an assumed part of the game. I have no problem with people buying magic items. Hell, if I could buy a cloak that let me fly, I'd blow my bank account to get it. It's fine that magic items are for sale. I just don't like the idea of this weird sort of 'adventuring gear industry,' where thousands of mages labor in sweatshops churning out +1 swords.

I don't care so much. And I don't think it's a matter of assuming that there are sweatshops out there churning them out. It's that there was likely an empire so strong and so powerful that their entire army was decked out in magic armor and weapons created by the finest smiths. Then the empire fell and was then looted by everyone that could get their hands on the magic. Over 10,000 years the items found their way into various people's hands and into shops.

Then multiply the above situation for 10 or 20 ancient empires and hundreds of heroes with personal magic items throughout the eons. Magic items don't wear out, so they become fairly common.

 

[HeinorNY]

So, what would you want to see instead of a +2 sword?

Sword with special abilities that activate once per hit, whenever the wielder deals a critical hit, and :
- Heal the wielder
- Extra energy damage
- any buff for the wielder or his allies
- any flashy thing

Not so powerful abilites could be activated with a higher % chance on each hit, so whenever you hit your opponent rolling a 15 or higher on the d20, your Hammer of Unstoppable Force pushes the opponent 10 ft. back.

Weapons could also have per day and per encounter powers:

Using the Earthcrusher Maul you can once per day hit the ground, make an attack roll against your opponents REF to knock them prone and deal damage.

The Deathspit Dagger deals X poison damage when it hits and it takes 1 minute to secrete more poison for another poisoned attack, so it's effectively a per encounter ability.

 

[ptolemy18]

Unless you're rejigging the magic using classes, NEVER focus on the magic item problem.

Well, then obviously we're back to square one and everything should stay the same, because I'm totally against the idea of taking weird and spectacular magic out of core D&D, even though I may like a low-magic side-campaign once in awhile.

Also, it's not like wizards *totally* don't need items; you can strip a 9th level wizard of his spellbook, if you really want to play dirty. (But not a 9th level sorcerer, I guess...) And while we're altering things, the class could be altered to make material components more expensive and necessary.

Actually, it sounds like the whole "+3 wand", "+4 orb" thing in D&D4e is going to sort of level the playing field with regards to wizards needing a "weapon" in the same way that fighters do. Although I don't think there's anything wrong with having "this class needs a lot of expensive, potentially vulnerable equipment/this class doesn't need a lot of expensive, potentially vulnerable equipment" being a factor in overall class balance. Really, the whole fact that a sorcerer *can* be buck naked and shoot fireballs with their bare hands, or that a monk *can* be buck naked and beat everybody up, in the existing rules, is one of the many factors that makes them awesomer than fighters of a corresponding level... I'll admit that.

 

[ptolemy18]

Sword with special abilities that activate once per hit, whenever the wielder deals a critical hit, and :
- Heal the wielder

I think your ideas for magic weapons on the whole are good, but I gotta say -- I don't like weapons, or attack maneuvers, or attack spells, that also heal people. It's okay if they're some rare, weird, high-level thing, like some "Divine Aura" spell that zaps your foes and heals your friends, but if they are a central low-level element of the 4e cleric/warlord power list I'm going to be pretty annoyed. ("Hey kids! Bored of playing clerics? Guess what? You no longer have to choose between kicking ass and healing people on a round-to-round basis! You can do both IN THE SAME BLOW!")

IMHO, it's just so counterintuitive and silly, such a metagame sort of reward... why not have gold pieces and XP come flying out of the sword when it does a critical hit, while you're at it? ~_~

 

[HeinorNY]

I think your ideas for magic weapons on the whole are good, but I gotta say -- I don't like weapons, or attack maneuvers, or attack spells, that also heal people. It's okay if they're some rare, weird, high-level thing, like some "Divine Aura" spell that zaps your foes and heals your friends, but if they are a central low-level element of the 4e cleric/warlord power list I'm going to be pretty annoyed. ("Hey kids! Bored of playing clerics? Guess what? You no longer have to choose between kicking ass and healing people on a round-to-round basis! You can do both IN THE SAME BLOW!")

IMHO, it's just so counterintuitive and silly, such a metagame sort of reward... why not have gold pieces and XP come flying out of the sword when it does a critical hit, while you're at it? ~_~

What about that:
- The Vampirefang Sword heals its wielder for X Hit Points when it strikes a critical hit, since it drains the life energy of the enemy and gives it to the wielder.

- The Quarterstaff of the Wise gives you extra XP for each opponent defeated using it.

- The Thief's Dream Dagger steal X gold coins from the opponent when it strikes a critical hit.

Ok the last two were a joke

 

[VirgilCaine]

It's fine that magic items are for sale. I just don't like the idea of this weird sort of 'adventuring gear industry,' where thousands of mages labor in sweatshops churning out +1 swords.

H I S T O R Y!

MAGIC ITEMS DO NOT WEAR OUT.

MAGIC ITEMS CAN BE OF ANY AGE AND STILL WORK.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HISTORY MEANS LOTS OF ITEMS ACCUMULATED.

NEWLY PRODUCED ITEMS WILL BE NEW DESIGNS OR STYLES, NOT NECESSARILY BASIC ITEMS LIKE HEWARD'S HANDY HAVERSACKS, +1 SWORDS, ETC.

That's your answer. History.

 

[Goblyn]

H I S T O R Y!

MAGIC ITEMS DO NOT WEAR OUT.

MAGIC ITEMS CAN BE OF ANY AGE AND STILL WORK.

THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF HISTORY MEANS LOTS OF ITEMS ACCUMULATED.

NEWLY PRODUCED ITEMS WILL BE NEW DESIGNS OR STYLES, NOT NECESSARILY BASIC ITEMS LIKE HEWARD'S HANDY HAVERSACKS, +1 SWORDS, ETC.

That's your answer. History.

That's incorrect. I dunno about 4e, but in 3.5 magic items take damage just the same as mundane ones of the same type as per DMG214 under damaging magic items.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

That's incorrect. I dunno about 4e, but in 3.5 magic items take damage just the same as mundane ones of the same type as per DMG214 under damaging magic items.

They take damage from someone intentionally causing them harm or such things, but they also have more hitpoints, more hardness, and they don't lose their enchantment until they are completely destroyed.

And I'm not sure where or even if it's listed anymore, but I believe there is a statement saying that part of the enchantment on magic items prevents it from being damaged by time, so only physical damage destroys it.

 

[VirgilCaine]

That's incorrect. I dunno about 4e, but in 3.5 magic items take damage just the same as mundane ones of the same type as per DMG214 under damaging magic items.

WEAR OUT != SUNDER WITH HAMMER.