Disease tracks pointless?

[hailstop]

Actually, the more I think about that the more I like it. Why should a 6th level ritual costing 150 gp be able to cure a 1st level disease for the same cost as a 30th level disease. That would make it work similarly to Raise Dead anyways.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The problem with the system is that diseases can range from trivial to super nasty in effects but the cure is automatic and universal. What if the cure disease ritual worked automatically only if the ritual caster's level exceeded that of the disease? A caster of equal or lesser level might have to contest with the disease via a series of skill rolls or something.

This would work great when combined with unknown diseases. Such disorders might have a specific cure that require an adventure to aquire or the PC's can attempt a ritual, not knowing if it is potent enough to be effective. A disease that resists several attempts at ritual cleansing would be plenty scary.

It requires a skill check in D&D 4. If you fail, you might kill your friend. Though that usually requires rolling very low and the PC being low on hit points. But that is far from impossible, especially with the "right" disease.

I don't think it makes sense to make it too hard to cure diseases by default. Diseases of your levels are light encounters or skill challenges of your level - you have a very good chance to make it out succesful. If you want a disease to be dangerous, make it a high level disease, just like dangerous encounters have a higher level.

 

[ExploderWizard]

It requires a skill check in D&D 4. If you fail, you might kill your friend. Though that usually requires rolling very low and the PC being low on hit points. But that is far from impossible, especially with the "right" disease.

I don't think it makes sense to make it too hard to cure diseases by default. Diseases of your levels are light encounters or skill challenges of your level - you have a very good chance to make it out succesful. If you want a disease to be dangerous, make it a high level disease, just like dangerous encounters have a higher level.

Does the ritual need the skill check or is that just for trying a cure using the heal skill? I don't have my books handy and disease hasn't come up in our games much yet.

 

[AllisterH]

Does the ritual need the skill check or is that just for trying a cure using the heal skill? I don't have my books handy and disease hasn't come up in our games much yet.

The ritual does require the skill check.

Looking at the specific character, other than using higher DCs a.k.a stronger diseases, there's not much you can do once you get out of heroic. The PCs will at most likely suffer only the one time infection.

Of course, as another poster pointed out, if the PCs are pressed for time ("racing after cultists in a disease infested swamp"), you're likely to get Endurance being more important.

 

[jmucchiello]

I have no problem with disease not being that big a deal in D&D (of any edition). The characters are supposed to be heroes. You wouldn't read a book when just before heading out to kill the dragon, the hero falls ill and dies from gout. In heroic fantasy, the hero finds the rare flower/herb needed to heal the dying king. Finding a cure for yourself is less heroic.

Disease is interesting before the players can Cure Disease. But you can assume low level characters aren't yet heroes (at least pre-4e you can). Overcoming death and disease in your pre-hero adventures makes sense.

 

[malraux]

The ritual does require the skill check.

Looking at the specific character, other than using higher DCs a.k.a stronger diseases, there's not much you can do once you get out of heroic. The PCs will at most likely suffer only the one time infection.

Of course, as another poster pointed out, if the PCs are pressed for time ("racing after cultists in a disease infested swamp"), you're likely to get Endurance being more important.

Another thing to modify about diseases is when you have to make an endurance check. A zombifying disease could force checks every time a character is bloodied or unconscious, for example, and not just during an extended rest.

 

[hailstop]

Yes, but then why bother? Why bother having any high level diseases since just from the 1/2 per level bonus, not to mention any Aid Other, gets the roll well out of the danger zone.

The fact is that diseases, including high level diseases, _are_ in D&D. It's just that the mechanics then make them pointless, little more than an annoying little speedbump since 150 gp when you're 15th level or higher is chump change.

Let's just say that you're 14th level, and trying to cure a 14th level disease.

You've got a +7 for your level bonus, say, a 16 for your Wis assuming you're not even a Wis based class, so that's a +3. So before you even roll you're guaranteed a +10...and you're not even trained in Heal.

Then you have four of your friends join in...well at 14th level you still only need a 10 for the +2 bonus, so even if you've got no Wis bonus at all, and not trained in Heal either, you only need a 3 to get that 10.

So odds are you're getting either +6 or +8 bonus on top...so you're into the 17-19 range on the skill check, even if you roll a 1. Then you subtract the 14 for the disease level for a 3-5...

So basically at 14th level, in order to have a smidgen of a possibility of dying, you need to have the Ritual Caster not be trained in Heal, have no Wisdom bonus, have 4 friends who try to aid, also without being trained in Heal, have no Wisdom bonus...with all of them rolling a 1 or 2, then having the Ritual Caster rolling a 1 himself.

All the other 'costs' are effectively dealt with via healing surges and once you're low on those just take an Extended Rest.

It gets even worse as you go up in level.

 

[hailstop]

Perhaps if diseases had some sort of aftereffect like many power effects do...

 

[The Little Raven]

I make "special" diseases have a special, explicitly-named component that is necessary, in addition to the normal cost.

No curing the Godslayer Plague with just a check, oh no. You must journey into the heart of the Splintershard Mountains and find the River's Source, then catch a Golden Spirit Fish and bring it back alive for the ritual.

 

[Novaseaker]

If you want to make the Cure Disease ritual harder to use, you can use an idea from earlier in the threat: Every disease has a different cure.

Get rid of the Cure Disease ritual's component cost. Make it's component cost a pure roleplaying thing.

Inflicted with moon fever? You need to find some wolfsbane.

Mummyrot? You need extract of lifeflower.

etc. etc.

Then make the PCs have to go and find it, or have the local apothecarion infom them that the next shipmet of aleo vera or whatever won't be coming into town for at least another week.

Now the disease tracks will be used.