D&D 5E Disintegrate and power word kill IN SWORDS

I see why we call you "GMforPowerGamers" now!
yup... although the 2 players I took this name for all those years ago have moved so I nolonger have THOSE power gamers
To answer your question, they ARE absolutely way OP, but not game breakers, really. I'm kinda shocked that your player found them a problem - IME players generally give little thought to power, or just plain love it (when it's given to them, not monsters!) Was your player also a DM? That would make more sense to me.
yeah all my players are DMs... the one in question this was his first campaign with me and when He started toward the assassin/gloomstalker if anything I figured he would be the biggest power gamer (or at least most proficient) at the table but he wasn't. Now don't get me wrong he was powerful but he also RPed well, I actually thought he would be a good fit. Until he chafed under this...

Now they had to beat a Bard that was controlling/holding hostage a town in the mountains with Geas, charm/dominate effects and threats of force.

he first asked if anyone else wanted them (even though he was only one fighting with any short swords let alone 2) and then was reluctant to take them. After 3 sessions (with not 1 speed metal attack being successful yet I might add) he went to 4th level ranger then 5th so he could take 2 attacks with speed metal every round not just gloom stalker bonus 1st round.

He kept charging head first into things (he kind of was before that) as if he had a death wish, and when he charged past everyone and started a 2nd fight while 1st one was still going he died... and when the divine soul sorcerer got over and cast revivify (easting 2 attacks of op and useing full round I might add) he said his soul doesn't come back he had a new idea he wanted to bring in... the next session he insisted he come in 1 level lower then party (even though we explained over and over again we do group xp) but he did relent to being equal level as long as he could come in with no items (not no magic items, naked... no anything) He played the only Champion fighter I have ever seen played for any amount of time (Not withstanding multiclass) and was a warforged fighter covered in rust who took -4 to his dex and -2 to his con (we use array) and started with high cha and wis okay str and pitiful dex con and int... then refused to use action surge. When the campaign ended he said we were not compatable... I have a thread about it, he said "We are too much problem solvers, not role players"
 

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Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
I think the vorpal sword is the upper limit to how powerful 5E swords should be, unless you're going beyond level 20.

Basic rules said:
Vorpal Sword
Weapon (any sword that deals slashing damage), legendary (requires attunement)

You gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon. In addition, the weapon ignores resistance to slashing damage.

When you attack a creature that has at least one head with this weapon and roll a 20 on the attack roll, you cut off one of the creature’s heads. The creature dies if it can’t survive without the lost head. A creature is immune to this effect if it is immune to slashing damage, doesn’t have or need a head, has legendary actions, or the DM decides that the creature is too big for its head to be cut off with this weapon. Such a creature instead takes an extra 6d8 slashing damage from the hit.
That's a great weapon, but its power is largely out of the players' hands. It only has a 5% chance of firing and even then, there are enemies that will not be instantly slain by it.

Death Metal is dramatically better than a vorpal sword, as it fires potentially every attack and the higher hit points the wielder has, the more likely it is to kill an NPC instantly. The fact that it will eventually run out of charges doesn't mean as much when you've killed everyone in the room in a single multi-attack round.

I would absolutely rework Speed Metal and Death Metal (fantastic names, btw) to work almost identically to the vorpal sword, just with necrotic damage and haste effects.
 
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FitzTheRuke

Legend
yup... although the 2 players I took this name for all those years ago have moved so I nolonger have THOSE power gamers

yeah all my players are DMs... the one in question this was his first campaign with me and when He started toward the assassin/gloomstalker if anything I figured he would be the biggest power gamer (or at least most proficient) at the table but he wasn't. Now don't get me wrong he was powerful but he also RPed well, I actually thought he would be a good fit. Until he chafed under this...

Now they had to beat a Bard that was controlling/holding hostage a town in the mountains with Geas, charm/dominate effects and threats of force.

he first asked if anyone else wanted them (even though he was only one fighting with any short swords let alone 2) and then was reluctant to take them. After 3 sessions (with not 1 speed metal attack being successful yet I might add) he went to 4th level ranger then 5th so he could take 2 attacks with speed metal every round not just gloom stalker bonus 1st round.

He kept charging head first into things (he kind of was before that) as if he had a death wish, and when he charged past everyone and started a 2nd fight while 1st one was still going he died... and when the divine soul sorcerer got over and cast revivify (easting 2 attacks of op and useing full round I might add) he said his soul doesn't come back he had a new idea he wanted to bring in... the next session he insisted he come in 1 level lower then party (even though we explained over and over again we do group xp) but he did relent to being equal level as long as he could come in with no items (not no magic items, naked... no anything) He played the only Champion fighter I have ever seen played for any amount of time (Not withstanding multiclass) and was a warforged fighter covered in rust who took -4 to his dex and -2 to his con (we use array) and started with high cha and wis okay str and pitiful dex con and int... then refused to use action surge. When the campaign ended he said we were not compatable... I have a thread about it, he said "We are too much problem solvers, not role players"
Sounds like a DM that can't let go of how "(he) would do it" to play in other people's games, unless they are nearly identical in style.

In addition, (I've played with a few people over the years like this), he seems like one of those people who thinks that a character needs to be nerfed to be really good for "roleplaying". I mean, I agree that sometimes it's fun to play your character's flaws, but it's no less RP to play your character's strengths.

As an aside (back to the original subject), I'd probably limit Speed Metal's extra attacks to one more after the first disadvantage attack hits. It could theoretically get crazy with some luck. My main thought here would be to the other players having to sit through that player's turn. The one with Speed Metal would probably have fun, but I dunno about the other players.
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Let me get this straight. The player's problem was, "DM, you gave me a sword that's way too powerful, and I simply can't have fun by volunteering to use it and proceeding to cut through foes even though my character could really use any other weapon?"
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
OK, I was thinking about Speed Metal while I was out running errands (sending books I don't use any longer to Noble Knight in return for store credit, in fact). I'd make it work more like a vorpal sword while also feeling more speedy:
Speed Metal
Unique, weapon (any weapon that deals slashing damage), legendary (requires attunement)

You gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.

When you attack roll a 20 on the attack roll, you immediately get another attack roll with this same action. If you hit with this next roll, you can roll again. You can continue rolling additional attack rolls until you miss or until your target dies.
Now, this may do less than 6d8 damage, but it could also do effectively infinite damage in a single action. It also gives the player the fun of doing eight or nine slashes at once. I haven't crunched the numbers yet, but I suspect this is slightly less powerful overall than a vorpal sword but it has a comparable amount of fun in that it's a special effect that, to my knowledge, hasn't been done in D&D prior to this.

Also, both of these swords definitely need to play a burst of music when they're swung.
 

Whizbang Dustyboots

Gnometown Hero
OK, the second one here is on even shakier ground, and if someone really adept with D&D math could check it, I'd greatly appreciate it.
Pyre Blade
Weapon (any sword), rare (requires attunement)
You can use a bonus action to speak this magic sword's command word, causing black flames to erupt from the blade. These flames shed an unholy dark light in a 40-foot radius and dim light for an additional 40 feet. While the sword is ablaze, it deals an extra 2d6 necrotic damage to any target it hits. The flames last until you use a bonus action to speak the command word again or until you drop or sheathe the sword.

Death Metal
Unique, weapon (any weapon that deals slashing damage), legendary (requires attunement)

Death Metal is a unique Pyre Blade, and has the same properties as one: You can use a bonus action to speak this magic sword's command word, causing black flames to erupt from the blade. These flames shed an unholy dark light in a 40-foot radius and dim light for an additional 40 feet. While the sword is ablaze, it deals an extra 2d6 necrotic damage to any target it hits. The flames last until you use a bonus action to speak the command word again or until you drop or sheathe the sword.

In addition, you gain a +3 bonus to attack and damage rolls made with this magic weapon.

When you attack roll a 20 on the attack roll, you immediately sacrifice all your unused hit dice and do that much necrotic damage to your opponent. You recover your hit dice through the normal means.
So, again, Death Metal is capable of killing truly epic opponents, but in a very flavorful way. I personally think messing with necrotic energy and death metal should both feel a little dangerous, so the sword stealing both your life force and that of your opponent at the same time feels sufficiently epic and metal to me.

No slight intended with these suggested weapons, but I'm big into unique magical effects. I'm gearing up to send my players into a dungeon full of magical items, many of them cursed or with a double-edged nature, so this is where my head is at right now.
 

Weird (your player's response) but enjoyable discussion. Putting together a few powerful magic weapons for a book I am working on for epic/immortal characters, it was fun to see here powerful items scaled down to fit the lower levels. The 3 x HD mechanic on Death Metal was especially cool (I'd stick with that).

Personally I think all the weapons are fine but might benefit from some streamlining. Also if you make everything duplicate the vorpal mechanic of "on a 20" then I think items become a bit 'samey'.

Quickness (Weapon Ability): Target gains a 'free' extra attack with disadvantage...if that hits it gets another attack with double disadvantage (roll three d20, take worst) ...if that hits it gets another attack with triple disadvantage (roll four d20, take worst)...etc.

Deadly (Weapon Ability): Target's with current HP less than the wielder's HD x 3 are slain instantly when hit...then put it on the Wand of Orcus. :)
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
I like those.
The SPell Jammer Swords can be adapted to be a very useful assassin, hitman weapon.

The death metal is cool. The power could be base on remaining hit points to trigger more often.
More often?! Someone with 10 HD(10th level) will automatically kill everything he hits that has 30 hit points or less with no save. That's very often and I think a bit overpowered.
 



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