Disjunction questions

[Black_Skull]

If someone is subject to a Mordenkainen´s Disjunction spell, would his Protection from Spells work (+8 enhancement bonus on saves vs spells) for purposes of determining if your magical items are destroyed?

The duration of the disjunction is instantaneous, so it removes spells and (perhaps) destroys magic items simultaneously. I am not sure if that means that the spell is still in the target while checking your magical items, or maybe spells are removed first and so they can´t aid on the will checks.

Imagine two walls of force in adyacent squares and a wizard in either of both sides. A Wall of Force prevents spells from passing through the wall in either direction. Could that wizard remove both walls targeting the spell in a point of origin just before the first wall? or just the first one?

Provided disjunction´s area is a burst, I believe it affects first the nearest wall and then the other one, but I still have this doubt because the duration of the disjunction is instantaneous.

Any Thoughts?

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

Check for the protection spell first. If it fails, then there's no bonus to other saves.

 

[Black_Skull]

Check for the protection spell first. If it fails, then there's no bonus to other saves.

Good try. Mordenkainen´s Disjunction doesn´t allow a save to spells already cast in the target; they are just removed with no save. The will saving throw is only allowed to magic items, so that´s not the solution

 

[shilsen]

Good try. Mordenkainen´s Disjunction doesn´t allow a save to spells already cast in the target; they are just removed with no save. The will saving throw is only allowed to magic items, so that´s not the solution

Or it is the solution, with the answer being "No, it doesn't help", since the spell is automatically removed by the Disjunction.

 

[Black_Skull]

Or it is the solution, with the answer being "No, it doesn't help", since the spell is automatically removed by the Disjunction.

I know that the spell is removed automatically, but it doesn´t mean that the spell is removed first and then you check for your magical items, because both things occur simultaneously. You are affected by the effect of the Protection from Spells just at the same time you check for your items, because de duration is instantaneous. I suppose the spell doesn´t help provided that an instantaneous duration is a fraction of time greater than zero, but i would like to know if there is a rule of thumb about spells and simultaneous effects that could help to resolve this doubt basing on official rules, not just personal opinions.

 

[noeuphoria]

Well, you could apply Dispel Magic-like order and say that highest caster level spells & items are disjoined first. This would mean your really good items probably get the protection, but your smaller ones wouldn't. Or, given the more severe nature of the spell, you could reverse the order, saying that weaker enchantments crumble more easily. Either way would make sense, just be consistent.

 

[frankthedm]

I would say Disjunction rips right through the spells to scour the item clean of enchantment. The spell disolves from the potency of the Disjuntion giving no protection to the item.

 

[ARandomGod]

I would say Disjunction rips right through the spells to scour the item clean of enchantment. The spell disolves from the potency of the Disjuntion giving no protection to the item.

I have to agree with this one. Of course, when I'm the DM I don't use the spell... and when it's used on my it rips right through all enchantments, including the one connecting the player (me) to the character... and I walk away from the game.

To be fair, if I haven't meantioned this to the DM first (new DM I suppose), I'd tell him about it and live with what happened... as long as it doesn't happen twice.

 

[ARandomGod]

I would say Disjunction rips right through the spells to scour the item clean of enchantment. The spell disolves from the potency of the Disjuntion giving no protection to the item.

I have to agree with this one. Of course, when I'm the DM I don't use the spell... and when it's used on me it rips right through all enchantments, including the one connecting the player (me) to the character... and I walk away from the game.

To be fair, if I haven't meantioned this to the DM first (new DM I suppose), I'd tell him about it and live with what happened... as long as it doesn't happen twice.