D&D 5E (2014) Dispel Evil and Good cleric spell 5th level in use

[aco175]

Last night we played a big battle with a dragon possessed by a ghost dragon as a big boss fight in the adventure Divine Contention for 11th level PCs. An army of undead led by the dragon attacks the town of Leilon the same time a cult of Talos army attacks with both looking for a McGuffin. The PCs have several smaller encounters with both factions and end up with the final fight being with the dragon.

The cleric teleports with the wizard to the back of the dragon in the first encounter with the dragon. He wants to use the break enchantment part of the spell to drive out the ghost possession on the green dragon. The spell says that you tough the creature and no save.

I rule that teleporting to the back of the dragon that is flying requires a Athletics or Acrobatics check and the cleric fails. I give him a Dex save to catch himself before falling, and he fails. I lastly give a chance to touch the dragon as he is falling to do his spell, and he fails. He falls 60ft just before the dragon blasts the area he is in with 77 points of necrotic damage. He is dying and no longer concentrating. A few minutes later he is back up and the dragon moved onto finding the McGuffin and is perched on the tower fighting some ghosts of the past heroes of the town. The summoned eagles fly the PCs up to the tower and the cleric wants to cast the spell again. He is standing next to the dragon on the tower and says there is no save and he is just touching him to end the ghost possession.

I ruled that touching in this case would still need an attack roll. I figured it would be similar to a shadow or wraith touching you to death touch you and that you are trying to avoid being touched. I did give him advantage to the roll since the size of the dragon and the point that he was not trying to penetrate the dragon natural armor. Wondering what others would do or thought.

It worked and the dragon fell near death with the PCs pondering weather to kill it or release it back to its lair now that the ghost was not controlling it. They sent it back with the bargain that the dragon would not attack the town for 200 years. They could go to the dragon for future information or aid once if needed, but I do not think they will.

This beats what the barbarian was planning as a side note. He wanted to jump on the dragon and then swing a grappling hook around it like a 40ft horse. Secure the grapple and tie himself to the dragon so he could then chop the back of its head. Sounds cool, but all I was thinking was what checks and saves he would need to do this. Like the poor cleric in the first encounter I was thinking that he needed more than just all this can happen in a single turn. That player does like to get ahead of things and just assumes a lot.

Was it cool- yes. I think it could have been cooler if I thought about it more before the play started and knew what the cleric was planning.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Sounds like it turned out to be a fun encounter! In the end, that's all that matters. I've second guessed myself countless times after sessions when the players did something unexpected. I think you did pretty dang well, given the curveball they threw you!


Out of curiosity, what did you use for a DC for 1. the ability check (Acrobatics or Athletics), 2. the Dex save, and 3. the touch as the cleric was falling?

At first pass, I liked your rulings in the moment although I winced when you had the cleric make an attack roll to touch the dragon while on solid ground. That just isn't part of the spell. I was relieved to hear the cleric succeeded!

Second question: what did the wizard and cleric use to teleport up to the flying dragon in the first place?

(totally seems like I'm doing some Monday morning quarterbacking here but I think these are good thought experiments for DMs... so thank you for sharing!)

 

[Stalker0]

I also would not add an attack roll to break enchantment. There is none in the spell, and considering that breaking someone out of a possession is one of the key things to use the spell for (and I would figure pretty much any possessing entity doesn't want to be pushed out)...the spell seems to imply that they can't escape it, it just happens.

 

[el-remmen]

Maybe I’ve played too much 2e and 3e, where touch attacks were a thing, but I would have required an attack roll for the touch too. Presumably the dragon was trying not to be touched (though granting advantage also makes sense to me).

 

[Maxperson]

I also would have gone with a touch roll, but I'd have gone the 3e route. Most of a dragon's AC comes from it's thick hide, which isn't in play when trying to touch it. The dragon would have had 10+dex+any spells/items that help AC, which means likely it would be AC 10 given that dragons don't really have a dex bonus and most don't use spells.

 

[aco175]

Sounds like it turned out to be a fun encounter! In the end, that's all that matters. I've second guessed myself countless times after sessions when the players did something unexpected. I think you did pretty dang well, given the curveball they threw you!


Out of curiosity, what did you use for a DC for 1. the ability check (Acrobatics or Athletics), 2. the Dex save, and 3. the touch as the cleric was falling?

At first pass, I liked your rulings in the moment although I winced when you had the cleric make an attack roll to touch the dragon while on solid ground. That just isn't part of the spell. I was relieved to hear the cleric succeeded!

Second question: what did the wizard and cleric use to teleport up to the flying dragon in the first place?

(totally seems like I'm doing some Monday morning quarterbacking here but I think these are good thought experiments for DMs... so thank you for sharing!)

I was thinking of a DC15 for the ability check and likely would have let him land ok if he rolled a 13 or 14, with maybe some penalty. He rolled around a 5 so it did not matter. Same for the DEX save where I was around a 12 and he rolled a 6 or 7. Again, same for the touching roll in the first encounter where he rolled a 3.

The wizard cast dimension door to teleport to the dragon so he was able to take one other with him.

 

[Algorithmancer]

Okay, for Dispel Evil and Good and the "touch" part, you handled it pretty well. RAW, "touching a creature" for a spell usually implies a melee spell attack if they're unwilling and you're in combat. It's not just a freebie.

Giving advantage for the dragon's size was a good call. The barb's grappling hook idea would definitely need a bunch of checks too. It's tough when players assume cinematic actions don't need mechanics, but you gotta stick to some structure or it gets wild. Sounds like a cool resolution either way!

 

[Stalker0]

RAW, "touching a creature" for a spell usually implies a melee spell attack if they're unwilling and you're in combat. It's not just a freebie.

I don't know of any RAW that says that. I actually only know two other touch offensive spells: "Inflict Wounds" and "Shocking Grasp".

Both of those specifically say make a melee spell attack. So there is nothing implied, its straight up written. Dispel Evil and Good has no such language.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

The checks for the initial teleport and dispel attempt were good calls, perhaps even leaning a tiny bit on the generous side.

The check to touch is completely not how 5e works. The requirement for the spell was that they be within your reach. Had a roll been needed, it would have said so, since there is no general rule requiring such. If it helps to visualize, imagine that the caster doesn't actually have to make contact. It is a close range magical discharge, but rather than a 5' cone (for example) it has a range of "Reach".

 

[James Gasik]

I find it a little unusual that you don't need to roll to hit someone to end a condition with the spell, but you do in order to banish them outright. However it's true that the spell does not make that a condition. That an unwilling creature cannot make a saving throw or Dodge someone coming at them with a Dispel Evil or Good is a bit illogical, but I think the takeaway here is that nobody under the effects of those conditions would want to make a saving throw or dodge their removal, and the game designers felt that it would be unfair to force someone to resist the spell that can free them. YMMV, of course.