Dispel magic - Permanency

[Ramaster]

Hello!

I was wondering how dispel magic interacts with a spell made permanent by Permanency. The case in question is a caster who wants to place Enlarge Person on himself and then make it permanent. The wording on the SRD seems vague about this.

What happens if he gets targeted with Dispel Magic and the check succeds? Does the spell get supressed or does it get destroyed?

Thenks!

 

[Burn_Boy]

As I read it, the Enlarge Person spell can only be dispelled if the caster of Dispel Magic is at a higher level than you were when you cast Permanency.

I think it comes down to who it was who cast Enlarge Person. If the players casts it himself, then the person casting Dispel Magic has to be of a higher level than the player when he cast Permanency. If someone else cast it on him, Dispel Magic works normally.

I assume the Permanency would be destroyed though it seems odd that a level 3 spell could destroy a level 5 spell. If it was up to me, I might have it just dispel the effect until the caster died. Unless you use Greater Dispel, then I'd say it's destroyed.

 

[Jcosby]

Dispel Magic Vs. Permanency

I think the ruling is quite clear. I think the PRD could be worded a bit better but it's not bad over all.

Permanency
This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.

Dispel Magic
Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.

With those two statements it's clear that the dispeller would have to be of a higher level and make the correct DC check to end the permanency effect. I don't know if I would end the spell effect right away or start it's timer now. I guess that depends on if you think the spell timer is suppended or it runs it's course but the spell just dosen't expire.

Jeff

 

[Ramaster]

I think the ruling is quite clear. I think the PRD could be worded a bit better but it's not bad over all.

Permanency
This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.

Dispel Magic
Targeted Dispel: One object, creature, or spell is the target of the dispel magic spell. You make one dispel check (1d20 + your caster level) and compare that to the spell with highest caster level (DC = 11 + the spell's caster level). If successful, that spell ends. If not, compare the same result to the spell with the next highest caster level. Repeat this process until you have dispelled one spell affecting the target, or you have failed to dispel every spell.

With those two statements it's clear that the dispeller would have to be of a higher level and make the correct DC check to end the permanency effect. I don't know if I would end the spell effect right away or start it's timer now. I guess that depends on if you think the spell timer is suppended or it runs it's course but the spell just dosen't expire.

Jeff

If this is the case, then I would say that the spell ends right away, since Permanency states that it changes the duration of the target spell to "Permanent", therefore ending it right away.

Thanks for the answers, anyone else has other interpretations?

 

[Salthorae]

Not really, that seems to be the best interpretation. They have 2 hurdles to overcome.

I would also agree with your statement that the effect ends right away if they manage to get past both hurdles and dispel the Enlarge. Luckily in Pathfinder, it's only lost money, not XP! And honestly 2500gp for a +2 to Strength (that stacks with enhancement bonuses) and 10' Reach is pretty nice!

I would say the person would need to watch out for RP issues though... when was the last time an NPC saw a 10-12' tall human looking thing and thought "oh, it's just an enlarged human wizard/fighter" as opposed to "OMG it's a giant! Attack!!"?

My question related to a Permanency-Enlarge is more, how does Reduce Person effect that creature? It says in the spell description:

...counters and dispels enlarge person

Does that then just act like a dispel magic and has to meet the 2 hurdles described above or would you only have to meet the Caster Level requirement and then Enlarge is automatically dispelled? OR is it neither and it just auto dispels?

The last option seems too powerful for a 1st level spell to accomplish over a 5th level spell, but honestly both seem too powerful to me, that it would auto-dispel if from a higher caster level or that it would simply auto dispel...

 

[Set]

My question related to a Permanency-Enlarge is more, how does Reduce Person effect that creature? It says in the spell description:

Does that then just act like a dispel magic and has to meet the 2 hurdles described above or would you only have to meet the Caster Level requirement and then Enlarge is automatically dispelled? OR is it neither and it just auto dispels?

The last option seems too powerful for a 1st level spell to accomplish over a 5th level spell, but honestly both seem too powerful to me, that it would auto-dispel if from a higher caster level or that it would simply auto dispel...

My house-ruling on the spot would be that the reduce person (which the target can also save to resist, if unwilling) automatically suppresses the enlarge person for as long as the reduce person would normally last, but when it's duration expires (or is otherwise ended), the subject would return to their enlarged state.

 

[Jcosby]

I would agree on this as well.