Displacement - a bit wussy eh? Mirror image too...

[Hussar]

Thing is, you can ONLY use them on other people's turns. Or at least, from what we've read, you can't use them on your own turn (although this is possibly different in the actual books), so a Wizard apparently can't use Displacement to re-roll and OA she gets from moving past someone.

Is this an official change? New Mini's handbook maybe? (Haven't read that) Cos, in 3.5, immediate actions could be taken on your turn.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Yeah there will be tons of them and they will be 95% waste of bandwidth. Nerds + Internet + Change = whinge city.

There is no point in comparing any power/class/race etc. 4th v. 3rd. The basic economy of power has been changed. The only way to tell how good the power is is to use it playing the full 4th edition rules and find out.

Unless you just want to shoot the breeze that is.

Oh gosh, you're right, I hadn't thought of that.

I suppose we'd better shut down the 4e forum until the product launches then.

...no, wait

 

[Nebulous]

I just don't ever see a time in 4e where the wizard says "They are storing all the treasure in the vault in the middle of the castle? Yawn. I put up stone skin, improved invisibility, displacement, greater mage armor, shield, mirror image, energy immunity to all 5 energy types, and fly, then for the next couple of minutes virtually nothing can hurt me. I scry and telport into the vault with enough time to load the entire treasure into a portable hole and teleport out. If they have the vault warded against teleport somehow I'll just have to use passwalls, disintegrates, or dimension doors to get in."

Maybe you're right. I think the designers (and maybe the majority of gamers they used feedback from?) were tired of this style of gameplay in 3e (and to an extent 2e). But it still might be possible at high, high level, certainly by Epic level. And for my preferences, the godlike ability to step into a magically warded vault in 6 seconds and steal everything SHOULD be reserved for someone with godlike powers.

 

[Simon Marks]

And for my preferences, the godlike ability to step into a magically warded vault in 6 seconds and steal everything SHOULD be reserved for someone with godlike powers.

That's an epic rogue, though - not an epic wizard surely?

 

[vagabundo]

That's an epic rogue, though - not an epic wizard surely?

Either I suppose, wizards like the five fingered discount as much as anyone. A thieving, snivelling, cowardly wizard is a nice character.

 

[Dausuul]

Is this an official change? New Mini's handbook maybe? (Haven't read that) Cos, in 3.5, immediate actions could be taken on your turn.

Do we even know that you only get one immediate action per round?

You're welcome to home-rule that the wizard class can take abilities that are within twice their class level, while all other classes have to take abilities that are within their class level. That should power up wizards just fine.

Please understand for a lot of us, that's one of the things that sucks about 3.5. The effective rule for 3.5 for wizards, druids, and clerics is they get to pick abilities that are twice as powerful as any other class. Coming out here and complaining about how underpowered wizards are in 4e isn't going to earn you any sympathy.

Damn straight. I'm a wizard player from away back, I love the arcane casters, but even I'm heartily sick of the way they dominate everything at high levels. I hate feeling like I have to gimp my own character so as to not overshadow the non-casters.

And as for the "feel" of magic--yes, it's changing, and I'm quite happy with the changes. 4E magic feels a lot more organic than 3E; if I know Mage Hand, I don't have to ration out my castings per day for a freakin' cantrip, I can just do it. The magic is at my character's fingertips, always ready. I'll gladly accept a nerfing, particularly given how badly the class needed it, in exchange for never again having to prepare a spell*.

*Okay, yeah, I still have to prepare the daily, but I can live with that. I'd rather see Vancian casting axed altogether, but I suppose that will have to wait for 5E.

 

[ferratus]

*Okay, yeah, I still have to prepare the daily, but I can live with that. I'd rather see Vancian casting axed altogether, but I suppose that will have to wait for 5E.

I was as glad as anyone when Vancian casting was axed, but I have to admit I do like my wizard to carry around a spellbook. You could leave it for rituals I suppose...

 

[vagabundo]

And as for the "feel" of magic--yes, it's changing, and I'm quite happy with the changes. 4E magic feels a lot more organic than 3E; if I know Mage Hand, I don't have to ration out my castings per day for a freakin' cantrip, I can just do it. The magic is at my character's fingertips, always ready. I'll gladly accept a nerfing, particularly given how badly the class needed it, in exchange for never again having to prepare a spell*.

*Okay, yeah, I still have to prepare the daily, but I can live with that. I'd rather see Vancian casting axed altogether, but I suppose that will have to wait for 5E.

This is my favourite change in 4e so far, the fact a wizard can cast light at will or Mage Hand. Wizards actually feel like real wizards to me now.

I've never been happy with the wizards, the sorcerer came closest before the 4e wizard.

Oh an rituals, cant forget about those rituals.

 

[catsclaw]

I was as glad as anyone when Vancian casting was axed, but I have to admit I do like my wizard to carry around a spellbook.

IIRC, they've said wizards still carry spellbooks in 4e.

 

[small pumpkin man]

Is this an official change? New Mini's handbook maybe? (Haven't read that) Cos, in 3.5, immediate actions could be taken on your turn.

I couldn't link to it. I think it was the handout at DDXP, perhaps the GM's one? The other difference was that Immediate and Minor actions aren't tied together anymore, using you Immediate doesn't use up your minor for the next round.