Divine Challenge (and all marks) question

[ShaggySpellsword]

Last night, I Divine Challenged a mob of angry poor people (human swarm monster) and proceeded to hurt it from reach a few rounds while my warlord kept it from closing on me. Eventually, it closed on me, as did another human swarm, and I went down. The swarm I challenged stayed adjacent to me in order to fight the warlord.

The question arose: Is a monster still marked if the creature that marked it is unconscious? There were two basic viewpoints at the table.

View 1: All marks have distinct durations. They last as long as they last. If a monster stays adjacent to an unconscious Paladin who has used Divine Challenge, they stay engaged and marked. Nothing will change this.

View 2: Rule of Cool, Fun, and Flavor. Marks represent you making yourself seem like the clearest threat that must be killed soonest, and being unconscious means you are clearly no longer a threat. Also, if a monster is still adjacent to you, Divine Challenge would force the monster to keep hitting you until you die, which is not very fun for the PC playing the Paladin or the DM.

We couldn't find anything in descriptions of marks or the unconscious condition to support View 2, but the DM landed there since, well, he's the DM.

Did we miss a rule that supporst View 2? Or is View 1 RAW, and View 2 just another house-rule in our game with the stated mission of being "house-ruleless?"

 

[Infiniti2000]

"You must engage it." Does remaining unconcious sound like engaging it to you? While unconscious you can't take actions and can't flank, etc. How can YOU engage them when you can't take actions?

 

[Fanaelialae]

I can't find anything in the rules that say one way or the other.

However, based on the idea that marking is the defender making himself a threat the enemy can't ignore, I'd say the intent is that it doesn't function if the defender is unconscious. Additionally, it would be rather annoying if the defender became the role that invites coup de grace, simply because it can do it's job even while dying.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Actually, I think the marking rules for DC state that you must either engage the target OR be adjacent to it in order to maintain the mark. As long as the pally remained adjacent why shouldn't the mark stay? All the marked creature has to do is move so as not to be adjacent for a single round and the mark vanishes.

 

[DracoSuave]

Actually it's engaged -means- to have either attacked it that round, or to be adjacent.

And if you are unconscious and it has not moved non-adjacent, then the mark does not go away.

 

[eamon]

"You must engage it." Does remaining unconcious sound like engaging it to you? While unconscious you can't take actions and can't flank, etc. How can YOU engage them when you can't take actions?

But even so, there are powers which mark until the end of the encounter, and all marks (AFAIK) last at least until your next turn.

In any case, being marked by a dropped or even dead(!) creature is a peverse incentive and weird situation; I play it that all marked creatures lose the mark when the markee falls unconscious - but that's not strictly RAW.

 

[Stalker0]

"You must engage it." Does remaining unconcious sound like engaging it to you?

Ruleswise engaging means one of two things:

1) You attacked the creature
2) You are adjacent to the creature.

I mean in a world where helpless doesn't really mean helpless, you can't take the word engage at face value.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Ruleswise engaging means one of two things:

1) You attacked the creature
2) You are adjacent to the creature.

Not quite on the second one. Isn't it about "ending your turn" adjacent to him? What, exactly, does that mean?

 

[keterys]

RAW I think the marks persist.

I don't think that's actually intended, though, because that would compel the monsters to coup de grace / attack the downed defender which is something decried as a tactic.

So yeah, marks don't function while defender is unconscious or dead says me.

 

[Ryujin]

RAW I would say that the mark persists until the Paladin is incapable of maintaining it, which means that it'll drop at the end of the Paladin's following turn. For simplicity you could say that he caused the target enough grief that it takes a moment to shake it off.

*EDIT* Sorry, should have been RAI, not RAW.