Divine Disciple Changes

[Artoomis]

Has Divine Disciple changed in the Players Guide to Faerun?

Specifically, did they include a tie-in to the Exalted rules - as in specifically allowed to cast "Celestial" and maybe "Archon" spells (at 5th level) like some exalted prestige classes.

 

[Artoomis]

whoops

....

 

[drnuncheon]

Considering that one does not have to be good to be a divine disciple, I'd think that such a change would be rather unlikely.

J

 

[Artoomis]

Considering that one does not have to be good to be a divine disciple, I'd think that such a change would be rather unlikely.

J

I've only used to with good characters, so I forgot about that. Good point though.

So if divine Disciple is "good" and achieves Transcendence (becomes a native outsider), can he cast celestial spells? He's an outsider, with a good alignment but not the [good] type, right? So the answer is technically no, right?

To allow this would require a bit of a house rule based on exalted prestige classes, right?

 

[drnuncheon]

So if divine Disciple is "good" and achieves Transcendence (becomes a native outsider), can he cast celestial spells?

No - he's an outsider, but he's not a celestial (which is a particular type of outsider).

He's an outsider, with a good alignment but not the [good] type, right? So the answer is technically no, right?

Exactly - unless, of course, the ability is worded differently in PGtF.

To allow this would require a bit of a house rule based on exalted prestige classes, right?

Exactly. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch, although I think it'd hose the neutral alignments (since there's no Exalted/Corrupted versions for Law or Chaos), and True Neutral especially.

J

 

[Silveras]

Exactly. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch, although I think it'd hose the neutral alignments (since there's no Exalted/Corrupted versions for Law or Chaos), and True Neutral especially.

J

On a quick look, there are 9 such spells; 5 require you to be an Archon, specifically, and the other 4 any Celestial. Of the 4, one of them specifically enhances the teleport spell-like ability; not much use to anyone who does not have that ability.

Do not confuse these with the Sanctified/Corrupted spells. Those are available to any spellcaster of the appropriate alignment, so long as they prepare spells (spontaneous casters cannot use them), and Clerics (presumably many Divine Disciples' base class) can spontaneously swap for the Sanctified spells just like Cure spells.

The revised Divine Disciple does gain the alignment subtype for any alignment component s/he shares with his/her deity.

As for allowing a Transcended Divine Disciple to be considered a Celestial or Fiend, I would consider it a reach; both because it unbalances the Divine Disciples of the extreme alignments vs. Neutral ones and because saying that Transcendence equates to Celestial or Fiendish status is a lot more powerful than the change is meant to be. Note that it reminds us that the character is a Native Outsider, which must eat and sleep, unlike normal Outsiders.

 

[Artoomis]

No - he's an outsider, but he's not a celestial (which is a particular type of outsider).

J

The celestial spells do not require one to be a celestial, they have a special component called "celestial," which means being an outsider with the good subtype. Also, though not listed in the Magic chapter, hold a level in a prestige class that specifically allows you to cast celestial spells (and usually (always??) they include archon spells as well - which means the archon subtype)

Technically, the terms "celestial spell" and "archon spell" do not exists - I am using them as shorthand for spells with a "celestial" or "archon" component.

 

[Sejs]

The revised Divine Disciple does gain the alignment subtype for any alignment component s/he shares with his/her deity

Oh dear.

Fiend of Possession/Corruption/Temptation, here we come.

 

[Artoomis]

...

The revised Divine Disciple does gain the alignment subtype for any alignment component s/he shares with his/her deity. ...

So that's it, then - an exalted Divine Disciple can cast the spells with a celestial component because they are outsiders with the "good" type. That's because an exalted character must follow a "good" god and thus will have at at least the "good" alignment in common with his deity.

No spells with archon components, though.

 

[Olive]

Fiend of Possession/Corruption/Temptation, here we come.

I don't have the new book, and so I'm not really sure about the PrC, but those fiendish PrCs are better flavour wise than powerwise in my campaign, and as long as someone played it right, then that sounds like quite a cool character concept...