Divine Favor and Persistent Spell

[Ferret]

That is not broken.

Presistant Time Stop... now that is broken.

Letseeeee someone work out you age 300+ years with that.

 

[James McMurray]

Including Persistan spell will have a definite effect on your game, it will escalate it. Instead of using multiple low level encounters to challenge your PCs, you would have to move to more of a "one big baddie" idea. If that is a problem, or seems less fun, then do not allow the feat.

Could you please give some reasoning for that? My players use persistant spell quite frequntly and I haven't seen scaling up of encounters becoming a necessity. I was wondering what made you feel that way.

 

[Crothian]

Could you please give some reasoning for that? My players use persistant spell quite frequntly and I haven't seen scaling up of encounters becoming a necessity. I was wondering what made you feel that way.

Personally, i think instead of one big baddy, you need, many smaller ones. Spread out the combat so the cleric needs to burn more spells. The persiatant stuff is made to run into one big baddie at any time. YMMV

 

[Mr.Binx]

From personal experience, I don't think Persistent Spell + Divine Favor is horribly unbalanced. Alot of the time the cleric is actually running around casting spells rather than attacking. Unless the cleric is ignoring his/her spellcasting abilities and constantly in melee, then the bonuses from the persistent Divine Favor are actually going to be akin to that of a 1st level spell. How much extra damage is coming out of the use of this spell over the coarse of 1 day? Is it actually doing more damage than a Flame Strike or the 1D3 Fiendish Dire Wolves from Monster Summoning V that can both be cast from the same level spell slot? Take a look at various 5th level spells and compare the damage output and usefulness.
IMPO, as a cleric you are better off keeping Divine Favor in one of your many 1st level spell slots for when you get that urge to run into melee and not cast any spells, rather than keeping it persistent and taking the chance that it's not going to be as useful as another much more potent spell you could be accessing.
As a DM, I say let the player do what he wants within the boundaries you give him. To alot of people who haven't done the math, this may seem like a broken loophole. Let the player think he's a genius to be using a 5th level spell slot for a glorified Greater Magic Weapon.
Also, about the dispel comments earllier: magic is an extremely potent factor in determining success in combat situations so dispels are extremely frequent by the party and opponents alike in my sessions. Anyone who is heavily buffed will often be singled out by both sides for dispels. This is why the spell was invented. I would be more likely to throw a dispel on someone because of a Haste or Stoneskin on the opponent rather than waste it on a someone else's 1st level buff, however.

Anyhoo, that's my two cp.

P.S.: Time Stop can't be affected by persistent spell. There are multiple threads on this same board regarding this issue and why it is not possible if you're interested in the mechanics.

 

[James McMurray]

Time Stop can't be affected by Persitant Spell? Why is that? It has apersonal range and a non instntaneous duration, exactly like Divine Favor. Besides, when it takes a 13th level spell slot, it isn't likely to come into play a whole heck of a lot is it?

 

[Mr.Binx]

This topic tends to get ornery so I'm going to kind of waltz around it. The basic jist is that the duration listed as '1D4 rounds of apparent time' in the PHB is actually the effect while the non-apparent and (for all intents) technical duration is actually instantaneous. Instantaneous spells are not subject to metmagic persistence. For the short and sweet version of this idea read p.47 of the Offical D&D 3rd Ed. FAQ. I'm pretty sure it was put this way for balance issues. Personally, I think WotC should have just errata'ed the spell duration in the PHB errata rather than FAQ it.

 

[James McMurray]

Thanks for the link. I guess that's one place where the FAQ and I will disagree. If they want to erratta the spell to instantaneous duration, that's fine, but when Skip Williams (or anyone for that matter) makes rulings based on his own personal feelings and not the rules themselves, I tend to ignore him.

I don't really see a Persistant Time Stop being that big of a deal, considering it requires 6 feats, 4 of which cannot be gained until you pass 20th level.

 

[Mr.Binx]

That's the main thing that makes the topic so touchy. It's got a real shaky foundation and no errata. As a DM though, you get the benefit of fixing these problems as you see fit.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

Thanks for the link. I guess that's one place where the FAQ and I will disagree. If they want to erratta the spell to instantaneous duration, that's fine, but when Skip Williams (or anyone for that matter) makes rulings based on his own personal feelings and not the rules themselves, I tend to ignore him.

I don't really see a Persistant Time Stop being that big of a deal, considering it requires 6 feats, 4 of which cannot be gained until you pass 20th level.

Or one rod of persitent metamagic unless those have an errata I'm unaware of. I think the problem is theoretically nothing would stop someone from basically getting 1 year of apparent time, by resting in that 24 hour period rememorizing spells, and then readying an action to cast another one right as this persistent one ends, cause now you know the exact time it will end so you can actually get the timing down pat.

 

[Mr.Binx]

...nothing would stop someone from basically getting 1 year of apparent time, by resting in that 24 hour period rememorizing spells, and then readying an action to cast another one right as this persistent one ends...

Actually, you can cast a 2nd Timestop spell while under the influence of the 1st Timestop and the 2nd Timestop would take effect immediately after the 1st elapsed. No need to ready an action. The reason this becomes a balance issue is that a persistent Timestop allows you to unload your entire hoarde of memorized spells and any spell-storing magic items upon a location, run to a safe location, and then let the Timestop lapse. Every single spell that was cast by the individual during the Timestop would then immediately take effect. Cheezy, yucky, grossness all around.