Heretic Apostate
First Post
Check out the link on the News front page. It's kind of cool, how donating to temples now have definite results. 
Divine Intervention
- Thread starter Heretic Apostate
- Start date
Well... I didn´t like those rules at all.
In my campaigns the money you donate has almost nothing to do with divine intervention and how your god looks at you. Of course there's been some gods interfering with my players (and not only good ones) but it was for diferent reasons (the players had made great sacrifices or were pursuing something the God was interested). Anyway divine intervention is now forbidden (due to a pact between the gods themselves)
(Hey I even had a player donate almost 25.000 gold coins to his church! And one of my characters, back when I used to play, donated 50.000 gold coins, actually it was some stuff worth 50.000 gold coins)
In my campaigns the money you donate has almost nothing to do with divine intervention and how your god looks at you. Of course there's been some gods interfering with my players (and not only good ones) but it was for diferent reasons (the players had made great sacrifices or were pursuing something the God was interested). Anyway divine intervention is now forbidden (due to a pact between the gods themselves)
(Hey I even had a player donate almost 25.000 gold coins to his church! And one of my characters, back when I used to play, donated 50.000 gold coins, actually it was some stuff worth 50.000 gold coins)
Heretic Apostate
First Post
Note that it's small amounts of money involved (the chart stops at, what?, less than 200 gp). And note that the deity only offers three orisons or spells from its domains for 1st and 2nd level.
There's (0-level orisons) guidance, resistance, and virtue. Then there's whatever spells are available for their domains for the first two spell levels.
So, pretty much, it's a visible demonstration of the deity's awareness of its portfolio. It encourages people to, in some way, worship the god's portfolio. In the FR, at least, worship = power.
There's (0-level orisons) guidance, resistance, and virtue. Then there's whatever spells are available for their domains for the first two spell levels.
So, pretty much, it's a visible demonstration of the deity's awareness of its portfolio. It encourages people to, in some way, worship the god's portfolio. In the FR, at least, worship = power.
It's only 155 gp for a +18 to your Cha chack. Jeez, that's almost like having a guaranteed free 2nd level spell at your tips.
This is just silly. Rules for manipulating gods. I realize I don't have to use them and I won't. I don't think any PC ever should know exactly their chance of getting a freebie from a god.
spunky the fighter: well I did give up that 155 gold so my god has to give me a freebie spell when I call for it. Guess I'll go and thumb my nose at some big bad guys cause I know I got a free heal spell when I need it.
Fighting commences and spunky gets low on HP.
Spunky the fighter: Hey god I gave ya that gold so give me the spell now as I command. Yeah I command my god to give me a free spell.
Utter crap.
Just my two cents-if you think such rules are the greatest thing since sliced bread then you go ahead and love em.
This is just silly. Rules for manipulating gods. I realize I don't have to use them and I won't. I don't think any PC ever should know exactly their chance of getting a freebie from a god.
spunky the fighter: well I did give up that 155 gold so my god has to give me a freebie spell when I call for it. Guess I'll go and thumb my nose at some big bad guys cause I know I got a free heal spell when I need it.
Fighting commences and spunky gets low on HP.
Spunky the fighter: Hey god I gave ya that gold so give me the spell now as I command. Yeah I command my god to give me a free spell.
Utter crap.
Just my two cents-if you think such rules are the greatest thing since sliced bread then you go ahead and love em.
Heretic Apostate
First Post
Keep in mind, you have to be doing something that directly relates to the god's portfolio. A god isn't going to waste its energy on foolish characters.
In the example given, the PC placed himself in harm's way to defend a friend. Protection/guarding is directly related to Helm's portfolio. In this instance, it was worthy of the +1 hit point.
What actions would you say would attract each god's attention and approval?
In the example given, the PC placed himself in harm's way to defend a friend. Protection/guarding is directly related to Helm's portfolio. In this instance, it was worthy of the +1 hit point.
What actions would you say would attract each god's attention and approval?
darkbard
Legend
while at first glance these optional rules may seem like powergaming, they are very limited in scope and advantage: a character must be in a position over which her deity holds sway (see skr's example). this is a great way to get the players thinking about their deities (especially in a deity-rich setting like FR) and the deities' place in the world (think of fafhrd and the gray mouser). just yesterday i posted a thread looking for help in incorporating faith in the divine into play (to which no one responded, by the by!); this looks like a great way to start. (although other ideas are certainly welcome!)
PC's should not be able to gauge how much assistance to expect from their god.
My problem with these rules is that it allows a PC to know exactly the percentage chance of their god aiding them if they give up a little gold and do stuff related to the gods portfolio.
Maybe I am paying homage to a sacred cow here but I firmly believe that this is the DM's domain. I think that far too often PC's will now act only because they KNOW that "by the rules" they are "owed" divine intervention.
When divine intervention occurs it should be because the PC's did whatever action regardless of whether or not their god would help them. It isn't too heoic to go stand over your friend's bleeding body and take a hit if you KNOW that your god is gonna patch you up enough to finish the fight.
Think of the first conan movie. Would the scene where Valeria saves Conan at the end by divine intervention have been as cool if Conans prayer to crom had been:
"Now remember Crom I'm doing battle and you lioke it so if I get in a pinch you save my butt OK?"
No, I think not.
My problem with these rules is that it allows a PC to know exactly the percentage chance of their god aiding them if they give up a little gold and do stuff related to the gods portfolio.
Maybe I am paying homage to a sacred cow here but I firmly believe that this is the DM's domain. I think that far too often PC's will now act only because they KNOW that "by the rules" they are "owed" divine intervention.
When divine intervention occurs it should be because the PC's did whatever action regardless of whether or not their god would help them. It isn't too heoic to go stand over your friend's bleeding body and take a hit if you KNOW that your god is gonna patch you up enough to finish the fight.
Think of the first conan movie. Would the scene where Valeria saves Conan at the end by divine intervention have been as cool if Conans prayer to crom had been:
"Now remember Crom I'm doing battle and you lioke it so if I get in a pinch you save my butt OK?"
No, I think not.
Dispater
Explorer
Blergh. That rule sucks.
Or its just me. What the hell should the gods care about money. They have a litle more important things to do than intervene everytime some rich guy tosses a few coins to his clerics. Donations is just that, donations. You give money away and get nothing back but perhaps the gratitude of the clergy and community. Its not some way to bribe a god to do a litle intervention here and there.
Or its just me. What the hell should the gods care about money. They have a litle more important things to do than intervene everytime some rich guy tosses a few coins to his clerics. Donations is just that, donations. You give money away and get nothing back but perhaps the gratitude of the clergy and community. Its not some way to bribe a god to do a litle intervention here and there.
durath said:
Of course they can. A raise dead spell, for instance, is nothing if not divine intervention of the most fundamental sort. It may take a 9th level cleric to do this, but then not everyone has the gift.
The so-called "divine intervention" rule as presented on the web page is silly and superfluous. Other than that, I guess it's a fine way to add that unique Realmsian feel to a campaign.
Hong "or is the 'other than that' bit silly and superfluous as well?" Ooi
poilbrun
Explorer
You may simply not ever show them the table. Heck, you could even not tell them it has an effect. I had once a wizard making a quest for the god of magic. During the quest, his hitpoints fell to -2. However, he had a ring of potion storing (from the BoEM web enhancement) in which he had stored a cure serious wounds potion. Without him knowing, the god simply triggered the ring effect, gicing something like 15 hit points to the wizard who was then able to continue the mission. He wondered for quite some time what had happened!durath said:
