Divine Spell casters and empty spell slots

[zlorf]

Im talking abouts Clerics here not Wizards ( i know why wizards would leave spells slots free)

I know why a Cleric would leave them free..but can they and if so does it follow the Wizards 15 minute rules.

As i said the first 3 answers to my question were different


Cheers
Z

Why does not matter. You can choose to do so.


When preparing spells for the day, a wizard can leave some of these spell slots open. Later during that day, she can repeat the preparation process as often as she likes, time and circumstances permitting. During these extra sessions of preparation, the wizard can fill these unused spell slots. She cannot, however, abandon a previously prepared spell to replace it with another one or fill a slot that is empty because she has cast a spell in the meantime. That sort of preparation requires a mind fresh from rest. Like the first session of the day, this preparation takes at least 15 minutes, and it takes longer if the wizard prepares more than one-quarter of her spells

 

[frankthedm]

Im talking abouts Clerics here not Wizards ( i know why wizards would leave spells slots free)

I know why a Cleric would leave them free..but can they and if so does it follow the Wizards 15 minute rules.

You understood in post #7 when you questioned why would a cleric would do so. A cleric can leave slots free, but it does them no good. They do not get the benefits a wizard does from doing so. The cleric would simply have fewer spells prepared for that day.

 

[Vegepygmy]

From the 3.0 FAQ:

I play a divine spellcaster and I generally leave a spell slot open. I'm concerned about whether I am following the rules correctly. After reading the Player's Handbook, I have assumed that divine casters can leave slots open; although, they must still perform the daily prayer session to prepare any spells that day. However, I can understand the argument that all spells must be prepared at the daily prayer session, and no slots can be left open. Page 156 of the Player's Handbook says a divine caster's mind is considered fresh only during his first daily spell preparation, so he cannot fill a slot that is empty because he has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell. I'm a little confused by this statement.

A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. (See page 156 in the Player's Handbook.) This means you can leave slots open.

The text you've quoted merely points out that you can replace spells you have cast or can switch prepared (but uncast) spells for other prepared spells when your mind is fresh (and only then). If you've left open slots, you can fill them in 15 minutes, even when your mind is not fresh. Arcane casters have the same rule. (See page 154 of the Player's Handbook.)

 

[Alpha Polaris]

The topic is exposed clearly in the PH 3.5 (emphasis mine):

Spell Selection and Preparation
A divine spellcaster selects and prepares spells ahead of time through prayer and meditation at a particular time of day. The time required to prepare spells is the same as it is for a wizard (1 hour), as is the requirement for a relatively peaceful environment. A divine spellcaster does not have to prepare all his spells at once. However, the character’s mind is considered fresh only during his or her first daily spell preparation, so a divine spellcaster cannot fill a slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell.

So you can fill a slot that you left empty since the initial preparation, at any point during the day. You cannot, however, fill a slot left empty after you cast a spell, or swap a spell for another, except during your daily prayer.

 

[Someone]

You understood in post #7 when you questioned why would a cleric would do so. A cleric can leave slots free, but it does them no good. They do not get the benefits a wizard does from doing so. The cleric would simply have fewer spells prepared for that day.

What the previous poster said; what you quoted means that if a cleric prepares, say, bless and casts or abandons it, he cannot prepare another spell in that spell slot unless he refreshes them. Notice it mentions a "slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell", it's not talking about slots left empty.

Also, it previously says that preparing divine spells is done largely the same as arcane spells except a few exceptions, and the inability of filling an empty slot isn't listed as one of these exceptions.

 

[zlorf]

So if the FAQ from 3.0 is still valid for 3.5 then there doesnt seem a issue with
a cleric leaving spells slots empty so they can fill them up later in the day after spending at least 15 minutes of pray and meditation.

Cheers
Z

The topic is exposed clearly in the PH 3.5 (emphasis mine):

So you can fill a slot that you left empty since the initial preparation, at any point during the day. You cannot, however, fill a slot left empty after you cast a spell, or swap a spell for another, except during your daily prayer.

 

[zlorf]

But wouldn't a spell not cast the day before become abandoned if you don't select it again and therefore leaving the slot empty? Its misleading and once again a single line could have made it so much more clearer. Im happy to go with the 15 mins, it keeps things moving a bit
more when you have a cleric that can take 15 mins to remove an effect on a character without having to wait until the next day.

Cheers
Z

What the previous poster said; what you quoted means that if a cleric prepares, say, bless and casts or abandons it, he cannot prepare another spell in that spell slot unless he refreshes them. Notice it mentions a "slot that is empty because he or she has cast a spell or abandoned a previously prepared spell", it's not talking about slots left empty.

Also, it previously says that preparing divine spells is done largely the same as arcane spells except a few exceptions, and the inability of filling an empty slot isn't listed as one of these exceptions.

 

[Someone]

But wouldn't a spell not cast the day before become abandoned if you don't select it again and therefore leaving the slot empty?

Sort of. If you abandon a prepared spell is the same as if it's cast: you can't use the slot to prepare another. But you can abandon it before refreshing spell slots. Don't sweat the "abandon" part too much: it's simply a way to prepare new spells without the need to cast all the spells you previously had.

 

[Piratecat]

Yay, Alpha, for digging up the reference!

So a cleric still has to meditate for an hour in the morning, but can leave as many slots free as she wants. At that point if she wants to fill those slots, it's 15 minutes for up to 1/4 of them, 30 minutes for half, etc.

 

[takasi]

What would be the point of having empty slots? The rules state you can but can you think of any reason why you would?

It's incredibly useful for utility spell selection.

For example, in our last session we were exploring the underdark when the party approached a lake we needed to cross. We "befriended" a koa-toa, but there was no way that my craven cleric was going to get in a fish-man's boat without some insurance. We asked him to wait a few minutes so I could cast water walk.

Later on this had a huge payoff. A group of koa-toas attacked us on a large staircase on the other side of the lake, and one of them bull-rushed the party wizard over the ledge into the lake. The koa-toa fell into the water expecting the weak land-walker to fall in with him...