DM advice: Is this fair?

[Mistah J]

Hey all,

Here is the scenario:

A party is travelling through a dungeon. In the 5th room, they come across a statue holding a goblet. There is a small rhyming riddle inscription that suggests if they put water into the goblet, the statue will produce some gold and if they put wine into the goblet, it will produce the key they need to continue into the next room.

The 1st party member tests this by putting water in the cup and gets some gold. They immediately try again but nothing happens. The 2nd party member tries with water and gets gold but again, nothing happens when they try again.

Correctly surmising that it only works once per person, the 3rd party member pours in wine to get the key and the remaining party members each pour in water to get more gold.

Later on, in Room 16 of this dungeon, they come across a locked chest that is inscribed with a continuation of the above rhyming riddle. This part suggests that if they pour something magical into the goblet (ie a potion) the statue will produce the key they need for the chest.

Note 1: The chest contains nothing that is crucial for the party to complete their current adventure/quest. It is only filled with bonus treasures.
Note 2: Although the chest is trapped, the party can attempt to open it another way such as picking the lock or breaking it open.

Question: Is it fair for the DM to rule that since the goblet only works once per person and all party members used it, they cannot get the key from the statue? Or do you think that it is unreasonable to expect that level of foresight from the party and the DM should rule that the potion in the goblet is an exception - allowing it to work.

Thanks for your insight.

 

[The Shaman]

Perfectly fair, and not unreasonable at all. Getting the key to the chest from the statue is the best (read: easiest, least-risk) method, but it's not the only method, so to my mind there's nothing unfair about it at all.

And it will get the players thinking about other ways to approach puzzles in the future.

I like it.

 

[pawsplay]

Who cares about reasonable and fair? I want to know what the PCs do! Do they go back to town and convince a barmaid to pour a potion into the goblet? Do they risk breaking open the chest? Do they ignore it and come back later when it's safe?

 

[Mistah J]

Who cares about reasonable and fair? I want to know what the PCs do! Do they go back to town and convince a barmaid to pour a potion into the goblet? Do they risk breaking open the chest? Do they ignore it and come back later when it's safe?

Well, Game is this Friday so I'll come back and let you know.

 

[Diamond Cross]

I think it's perfectly reasonable. It's actually a nice little riddle to solve.

 

[Nagol]

It seems fine so long as (1) there is no reason to believe the goblet must be left in room #5 and/or the the "offer" will be resinded once the group leaves the room.

If that's the case, then go for it!. It is entirely reasonable that a party will not locate or be able to collect all treasure from an area. Older games expected substantial leavings.

If my group had completely used the goblet, I'd be tempted to come back with a temporary party member hireling to room #16 later.

Keeping the goblet for later use has benefit outside of other potential uses it may have in the environment: you don't have to carry heavy gold with you until you're ready to leave..

 

[AngryMojo]

It's perfectly reasonable. In fact, I may steal it.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Or do you think that it is unreasonable to expect that level of foresight from the party and the DM should rule that the potion in the goblet is an exception - allowing it to work.

Yeah, there's a problem there. The first time the PCs encounter it they'll almost certainly get the full amount of gold.

Except there is a way around the problem - go back to town and get a plucky young lad to come along and be your potion pourer. In fact that's almost too good, you could get the entire local population to do the water/gold thing, with the PCs taking a 50% cut each time.

<- Cheater


My players would probably piss in it.

 

[delericho]

Question: Is it fair for the DM to rule that since the goblet only works once per person and all party members used it, they cannot get the key from the statue? Or do you think that it is unreasonable to expect that level of foresight from the party and the DM should rule that the potion in the goblet is an exception - allowing it to work.

It's perfectly fair and reasonable... but

To be honest, I don't think I'd enforce the "only works once per person" if I was also requiring the cost of a magic item. (Unless... does water that has been blessed, had light, or otherwise has a spell cast on it count? Because if so, there's no permanent cost for the clever party, so no harm in this. But if it has to be a 'real' potion then I'd probably avoid going this way.)

Why not? Well, it's likely to cause some measure of grief from the players, and in this instance I'm not sure the benefits outweigh the hassle.

 

[Ed_Laprade]

This is very old school, but even a lot of old schoolers might be miffed by it if there's no hint in the original riddle that there's more to it somewhere. But if they are old schoolers they could very well think of the 'let's go hire someone' idea.