DM advice needed - my party one-round BBEG's

[Yunru]

Have you tried Paragon creatures?

Also, hate to break it to you, but 0 is even

 

[dave2008]

Sorry I am late to the party and if someone has chimed in so with same ideas, but here are two quick and easy fixes for groups that are running through you BBEGs:

1) Use max hit points
2) Use max damage or damage +2 per tier (1-5 = +2; 6-10 = +4; 11-15 +6; 16-20 = +8)

A 3rd idea would to make sure they have bonus action or legendary action move options. They need a method to escape from being pinned down.

 

[Bradley Hindman]

If the BBEG is surrounded with underlings, how do the PCs know which is the true threat? I once arranged a combat where the villainous sorcerer and his apprentices all carried shields and spears, and wore helmets just like the run of the mill guards. His barbarian second-in-command wore a fancy hat and issued the commands. The PCs assumed the barbarian was the BBEG and used the opening round to alpha-strike him. Of course barbarians have lots of HP and have resistances to a variety of damage types. The barbarian barely survived (and in fact died the following round), but in the meantime, the PCs best toys were spent and the PC spell-casters revealed their positions. Only then did the sorcerer and his apprentices drop their shields and spears and start laying down the hurt.

 

[5ekyu]

The wizard would argue that he would incant his spell before coming into view and then immediately cast it once he moved and had LOS, surprising them. Mind you, he has argued that the number 0 is an even number before, so I generally take him with a pinch of salt

A few points under 5e...

The gm determines when there is surprise when two groups encounter.
If therevis no stealth or hiding involved, there is no surprise.
Hidden is not just unseen, but also unheard - and hidden requires a hide action.

Spells can be ready and used as reactions to triggers for one round.
The spell is cast during your turn (materials, components, slots, etc then) and the effect held by concentrstion wsiting for a trigger but it goes away at the start of your next turn.

So the only way for casting a spell and ready it then move in and release is even,posdibly a surprise is is the point of casting did not in itself give up the ghost. Verbal components, not taking hide action (action) while casting **and** approaching, within a normal 30' move (assumption) to get to line of sight etc etc etc - barring exceptional circumstances its hard to,imagine that not being a noticeable thing.

Obviously details matter.

Was it a spell without verbals or that was metamagic subtle? That can avoid having the cast-to-ready noise tip them off.

Is the caster a rogue able to use hide as a bonus action? Then they could use the ready action to cast and hold *plus* use hide as they walk up to get line of sight to keep from being heard as they walk to the corner/door.

Otherwise, the cast as ready and approach is rarely going to be quiet and unnoticed as they walk up to the door - thats a no stealth on approach encounter start.

That said, cast and ready two step at a corner is very useful for a number of reasons - not the least of which is preventing counterspell if your "cast" is done around the corner.

 

[biktin]

Let the PCs use their worst stats - their social skills - to try and win over the BBW. The challenge will seem immense since they're not rolling their highest numbers for it.

My players would hate this. One or two enjoy engaging with NPC's, but generally speaking they are ass kickers.

On the other hand, if I was playing, I would enjoy this. But I'm not!

 

[biktin]

Have you tried Paragon creatures?

Also, hate to break it to you, but 0 is even

I haven't but wrt 0.. it was a game of 13th age. The escalation die (a 1d6) hadn't come into play yet (first round). The player argued that since it hadn't got to 1 it must be 0, and their ability triggered on an even escalation die number. But you're right, it is strictly speaking even.

I'll try to look at that article. I find the authors style generally unreadable.

 

[dave2008]

I haven't but wrt 0.. it was a game of 13th age. The escalation die (a 1d6) hadn't come into play yet (first round). The player argued that since it hadn't got to 1 it must be 0, and their ability triggered on an even escalation die number. But you're right, it is strictly speaking even.

I'll try to look at that article. I find the authors style generally unreadable.

It is basically using two creatures as one. I still think you are best served with: max hit points, increase damage (as I noted before), and improved action economy (legendary or 2 turns) w/ movement options. Depending on how your group works you may want to increase AC, but I prefer more HP.

Also, if stealth is an issue throw some blindsight or tremorsense at them every once and awhile:

FYI, I have a thread of improved 5e monsters here: 5e Hardcore Monster Manual

They are only drafts, but generally the "elite" monsters there follow my suggestions and should help.

 

[dave2008]

One other thing: what CR monsters are you throwing at them? To even start to challenge 5 lvl 10 you need at least a CR 15 legendary. And quite possible higher (or you can use my suggestions to improve lower CR creatures)

 

[Oofta]

One other thing: what CR monsters are you throwing at them? To even start to challenge 5 lvl 10 you need at least a CR 15 legendary. And quite possible higher (or you can use my suggestions to improve lower CR creatures)

Good point. If you want tougher fights than you are getting ... drum roll ... throw tougher encounters. Ignore the CR calculations or at least modify them for the group (I typically add 20-50% to the "budget" depending on group) until you get the level you desire.

I frequently use the rules in the DMG for monster creation on page 273 to level up monsters. For example, if I want to make a CR 7 monster a CR 8 I would compare the lines on the chart and note the differences. So add 1 to AC, 15 HP, +1 to hit, do 6 more damage on average and increase save DC by 1. On a side note, I rarely increase CR by 1 it's usually several levels. If I want to add flavor to the monster and perhaps think of reasons why this one is unique I'll look at some other monsters around the new CR and add their legendary actions or abilities.

 

[Yunru]

I'll try to look at that article. I find the authors style generally unreadable.

To summarise:
Solo monsters are very poorly done. So get four monsters (what the encounter system is roughly based around), and make them one monster.
So four health bars, one turn in the Initiative order per Health Bar, no bleed over damage between health bars, and recovering from all inflictions when a health bar is fully depleted (and no healing depleted health bars).