D&D 5E [DM problem] Is the group I am leading too strong? Is the 5E system unbalanced?

[bbrown12]

Hey guys,

I am having a problem with the group I am DMing.

We are currently playing the 5E adventure "Princes of the Apocalypse". The party consists of 4x level 12 charactes: Barbarian (Berserker); Ranged Rogue (Arcane Trickster); Cleric and a Sorcerer/Warlock.

Actually, since they hit level 8 they seem weigh too strong for the encounters of the adventure, so I started increasing the encounters strength by adding more creatures. The problem is: Nothing really changed. The fights are still not challenging, but only seem to take longer.

• The Barbarian is hitting very hard, but has resistance too slashing/piercing/bludgeoning/fire/frost. He attacks with advantage all the time and I still hardly get him down.
• In hard fights the Sorcerer fireballs half my mobs. And he can also do that within the whole party, because the barbarian has fire resistance and the rogue hardly fails his DEX saving throw (getting no damage at all).
• The Cleric has AC 24 (Ring of Protection, Dwarven Plate +2, Shield +1) and I can hardly hit him. He also heals more damage per round than I can deal to the front liners (barb/cleric).

So, I was thinking about what I could do wrong, because my players also mentioned that fights aren't fun anymore.


I have three suppositions:

1.) Magic Items:
I might have handed some items to my players that are too strong. E.g. Dwarven Plate (+2), Shield +1, Armor +1, Wings of Flying ... I heard that +armor items would be game breaking, because the 5E system is not able to compensate them. Is that true?

2.) Spells:
To be honest, I have never spend much time to spells. It's not that I am never casting, but most of the damage I deal with my monsters is through melee/ranged damage. I always felt a bit overtaxed by the richness of spells. Another problem is that most of the casters I use are almost one hit by the rogue/barbarian or sorcerer.

3.) Wrong encounters:
Because the whole adventure is very "sandbox" I often need to adjust encounters. Therefore, I often use encouter builders like Kobold Fight Club to fit the characters current level. I always use "hard encounters", but it still seems not enought. Might that also be a problem?


I would be very interested in tipps and answers.

Thanks in advance!

 

[iserith]

Yes, magic items are actual bonuses, not just something you need to keep up with the game math.

How many encounters per adventuring day are they doing?

As well, what is the outcome you're hoping for here? Are the players feeling challenged by the difficulty you're putting before them? If so, then I wouldn't worry about it. If not and they want higher difficulty, then some tinkering may be required. It should be noted that difficulty increases or decreases depending on the decisions your players make. If they make smart decisions, they will lower the difficulty of the challenge by their actions. That is the game working as designed because we want our players' decisions to be meaningful!

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I have a party that was 6x L10 PC*. They are pretty much ripping though everything they have run into in OoTA after hitting 5th level or so. I'm finding that the difficulty really drops off hard after that point and its not easy to challenge them outside of a potential TPK fight. IME the game is pretty easy after 5th or so. So many ways not to die and they start to deal insane damage.


*I should say had a party, even in 5e attacking a demon price is not advised at 10th level. Though if they had one more Paladin or the rogue had dropped another crit they could have taken him.

 

[Dan Chernozub]

I don't have experience running higher level 5e encounters so far, nor am I familiar with Princes of the Apocalypse.

However, I think this is more of a general question of the Party being too strong.

What strikes me as the most important thing is that you state:

It's not that I am never casting, but most of the damage I deal with my monsters is through melee/ranged damage.

But it is not just about the spell casting but of the overall danger/challenge of the encounters. It seems to me like you are mostly fighting straightforward battles with the brute type enemies. And, as you are posting here, it seems like your players are getting bored of just cutting through them.

I think that 1-2 examples of your typical encounters would help.

 

[Caliban]

Do you also allow feats? Because if you are using feats/multi-classing + being generous with magic items, then almost any group of PC's will begin easily overpowering opponents designed to challenge PC's without those advantages.

You need to beef up the bad guys. Extra HP, Extra AC, special abilities they can use as bonus actions, feats of their own, etc.

Telegraph it a bit - describe them as being noticeably different than the normal versions of the monsters.

 

[WarpedAcorn]

I feel the same way with my group of 7th level Characters (Totem Barbarian, Dragon Sorcerer, Eldritch Knight, and Lore Bard). I felt i had to go so far beyond Deadly Encounters to put a dent in them.

And yes, I think issue #1 you listed is a problem. Knowing what I know now, I would NEVER had included +1 Armors into my game, nor would I have added Rings of Protection or Bracers of Armor (the lowest AC in the above group is 18). Instead I *should* have added Armor with features or Resistances. Weapons are no problem, but magic armor was my mistake.

Issue #2 is also very real. Spells mostly avoid those pesky AC's and can at least do a little damage to make the player somewhat concerned. But I see your point about the players having enough firepower to focus any caster down. Recently, I used an Oni and had him Cone of Cold 3/4 of the group from the relative safety of a Gateway.

As for #3, if the players are outclassing the sandbox enemies...maybe just have some of the trash encounters straight up run away. If its boring to you and the players (and they are not going to waste resources en route to a bigger encounter), then just skip it.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Instead of increasing the difficulty of encounters, you might try to increase the frequency. If you aren't getting at least six encounters into an adventuring day, then the party will just steamroll through anything because they have way too many resources that all recover every day. In order for them to feel threatened, you need to have more encounters than the barbarian has rages or the sorcerer has high-level spell slots.

 

[CapnZapp]

Yes, magic items are actual bonuses, not just something you need to keep up with the game math.

How many encounters per adventuring day are they doing?

As well, what is the outcome you're hoping for here? Are the players feeling challenged by the difficulty you're putting before them? If so, then I wouldn't worry about it. If not and they want higher difficulty, then some tinkering may be required. It should be noted that difficulty increases or decreases depending on the decisions your players make. If they make smart decisions, they will lower the difficulty of the challenge by their actions. That is the game working as designed because we want our players' decisions to be meaningful!

Try as you might, you cannot escape the fact a game can still be set to "easy" or "difficult" default difficulty.

And 5th edition is set to "hopelessly easy".

Can you change this? Yes. Can you make the game fun for players of every skill level? Yes.

Does it excuse WotC for defaulting to a carebearian (lack of) difficulty level?

No.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[CapnZapp]

I have a party that was 6x L10 PC*. They are pretty much ripping though everything they have run into in OoTA after hitting 5th level or so. I'm finding that the difficulty really drops off hard after that point and its not easy to challenge them outside of a potential TPK fight. IME the game is pretty easy after 5th or so. So many ways not to die and they start to deal insane damage.

Add that most monsters have relatively low AC/low attack bonuses/low damage and almost none of the tricks and moves of player characters.


Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Try as you might, you cannot escape the fact a game can still be set to "easy" or "difficult" default difficulty.

And 5th edition is set to "hopelessly easy".

Can you change this? Yes. Can you make the game fun for players of every skill level? Yes.

Does it excuse WotC for defaulting to a carebearian (lack of) difficulty level?

No.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

5e is by far the least dangerous version IME, though many like that.