DM rewards for running Adventurer's League - what are your thoughts?

[zingbobco000]

Sorry, this is going to be a bit long, just wanted to address a lot of the things I saw on here.

Dumb question - what if you only want to DM? What is the value of xp? I'm kind of interested in the AL, but have my hands full with my regular groups for now.

There is a huge value in EXP. As a DM who DMs 3-4 times a week I want to have that stand for something so when I go to my regional con to play as my character I want to have them be around the level of the people who I DM for so it's like I was there with them. Which I think is really the goal, like if you DM for a group that sees x and you apply the rewards to a character, said character has seen x because it was like being with them.

There should be rewards other than XP, certainly, but allowing a DM's PC to reach levels so he or she can participate in the same adventures as his or her players should be possible.

That said, it's tricky to give rewards out that actually benefit DMs without costing the AL a lot of money. (It really doesn't have that much funding, we're playing for free!)

In my store, we have a small donation from players every session, the money gathered goes to buy the published adventures for the DMs. At $1 per player per session, it's a small amount that adds up to a proper "thank you" for all the hard work the DMs put in.

Cheers!

We seem to have similar values Merric! Although the $1 would be very interesting. If I had a dollar for every time...

I would rather DM. I DM alot. So the standard rewards are not really for me.
Though the non standard ones that are there already are pretty big for me.
Early access to the story line and adventure via the encounters PDF and access to the mods. This, for me, is huge.
Access to certs to hand to players. It's the main reason I'm involved with a store for conventions. Having certs for players at a convention is awesome!

What other things do I want? In no specific order, and yes, some of them are selfish.

• More early access, in digital form would be fine, preferred even. Exclusive early access based on how many games I've run would be enticing.
• Content for players at my table that I've earned by running games.
• Content for DM's that run at events I organize.
• Digital access to maps for the events formatted for easy large, minis scale, printing. This would be amazing and save me a TON of time.
• Access to buy exclusive items, like special t-shirts and miniatures and printed content would be very cool.
• I'd love it if things like signed books could be sold to DMs and organizers.
• The ability to run a custom mods, given certain strictures, and only available to the best DMs, and maybe subject to approval?
• Discounts to conventions. I would go to many more regional ones or big ones if I could earn some sort of up front discount. And I'd do nothing but run games!
• A common place for DMs to discuss things and organize amongst themselves. There are a lot of local DMs that run encounters, but so do I, so going around on Wednesday nights to say hello is difficult.
• A spelled out way to earn special events and visits by the trading post and other WotC employee's and AL staff.

I agree with all of these, though a couple of them might be a bit hard to come by, but I think if they implemented these the amount of people wishing to DM would skyrocket (which is currently a problem as most places have a lack of them)

I don't mind the first at all, but the rewards at tier 2 and higher are badly out of whack with what the players are getting.

Consider...
DDEX3-2 gives the players 900-1200 XP, DM gets 200 XP (1/4.5 to 1/6)
DDEX3-3 gives the players 4500-6000 XP, DM gets 400 XP (1/11 to 1/15)
DDEX3-4 gives the players 17000-23000 XP, DM gets 1200 XP (1/14 to 1/19)

These are horrible percentages. Having to run an adventure *14 times* to gain the amount of XP a player would get is tremendously problematic. There are a few DMs that get to go to major cons and run the adventure a bunch of times, and thus get XP that way. I submit that isn't standard for a AL DM. (Even so, how many sessions do you actually run at GenCon and stay sane. 6?)

I agree, I'm running through all of PotA (for two groups) and the total exp that the players should get vs. what I as the DM gets? %2 I am not joking when I say that, 1/50 of all the EXP goes to the people who work really hard with a bunch of prep time to make sure that their players (and them of course) can have a good time should get only that much EXP. This astounds me.

The whole concept of AL just seems kind of poor to me. It's like taking all the long-term story building and companionship out of a campaign for the sake of regular games. It's like the difference between constantly dating new people and being in a long-term relationship.

I highly disagree, AL helped me find my most stable adventuring group yet. We play every week and we've been playing since the beginning of the first season. They have built a ton of story and I'm so glad that the concept of AL is here.

 

[Tyranthraxus]

Out of Interest Zingbobco:

Do you prefer the Modules or Expeditions Scenarios? Im dming both currently (I never did Tyranny). I actually find the Module the hardest to run and I cant really put my finger on why. Im pretty experienced running Expeditons types adventures (PFS back), but I have trouble keeping the narrative going for the module. I have a fairly solid group for the Module and I only run for 2.5 hours each Wed. I dont know what it is, just feel a bit disconnected. I also can have 6-7 players and I guess I dont have a variation chart to work on. When I think Ive added enough difficulty I find I havnt , and when I think an area will be a cakewalk sometimes it isnt.

(Im running Princes and Ive got a couple of players that came over from Lost Mine when I finished that and some who started Princes a little later. Ive essentially skipped the Red Larch side missions for lower levels and now wish I hadnt because of the new lower levels who have experienced Feathergale spire and now the Sacred Stone Monastery)

 

[zingbobco000]

Out of Interest Zingbobco:

Do you prefer the Modules or Expeditions Scenarios? Im dming both currently (I never did Tyranny). I actually find the Module the hardest to run and I cant really put my finger on why. Im pretty experienced running Expeditons types adventures (PFS back), but I have trouble keeping the narrative going for the module. I have a fairly solid group for the Module and I only run for 2.5 hours each Wed. I don't know what it is, just feel a bit disconnected. I also can have 6-7 players and I guess I don't have a variation chart to work on. When I think Ive added enough difficulty I find I havn't , and when I think an area will be a cakewalk sometimes it isn't.

(Im running Princes and Ive got a couple of players that came over from Lost Mine when I finished that and some who started Princes a little later. Ive essentially skipped the Red Larch side missions for lower levels and now wish I hadn't because of the new lower levels who have experienced Feathergale spire and now the Sacred Stone Monastery)

Yes I believe you told me about them over on Wizards forums. If it's a variation chart you need... Well... I feel the same way, so, what do I do? I make one, I currently have a google doc set up for that exact purpose, there's some edits that I made for home games, but those are easy to fix for AL play. I've mostly made above the APL for the group instead of below because there's so much EXP and very little level variation (for example, you're supposed to be on the same level for a dungeon twice) so I apologize for that, but there are some decently cool little things in there, and it works exactly as it should.

In answer to your general question I've DMed both and honestly, DMing expeditions takes a lot less prep time but I feel like I like I enjoy the modules more because of how interconnected they are. Sure I could easily whip up something to connect all of the expeditions but the modules do it so much better. According to my players, I do encounter edits really well so I hope the same corresponds to you (if you want it of course). In reference to the disconnection, I think I get what you're saying and believe me, all that needs to happen is for you to get to the temples, that's where the real fun starts. So I recommend just holding out, running a super iceshield orcs encounter (have like 100 orcs and stuff), and getting them to the temples while having a fun time.

 

[Scorpienne]

The whole concept of AL just seems kind of poor to me. It's like taking all the long-term story building and companionship out of a campaign for the sake of regular games. It's like the difference between constantly dating new people and being in a long-term relationship.

Heh! So that's certainly part of the situation. IMO, and this is just me, and I'm no one official... for me I need *both*.

I love having long term home games where I'm playing with the same folks week after week.

I *also* love having D&DAL play where I'm getting to meet a lot of new people.

As strange as it seems, D&D has been a terrific vehicle to meet new people all over the world. (Admittedly, it was much more so when we were travelling to different regions in Living Greyhawk, but that was then, this is now.) There's a fair few people I *only* know from conventions where I've gone to play D&D, or other game stores in my local area, and I am really glad I've gotten to know them.

Playing with and DMming other new different people (in my opinion) makes a person a *better gamer*.

It exposes you to SO many different character concepts and RP styles and party dynamics. That sort of experience broadens you as a roleplayer. Plus these strangers challenge your roleplay in ways you could have never predicted, and that gives you the opportunity to look at your character in a whole new light.

PLUS it exposes you to so many different technical differences in characters. I mean, we've nearly all said "Holy catfish! How did your character just *do* that?!?" and then someone points out a spell, or a rule, or something that you'd missed. You pick up all kinds of tricks and tips from other people who have gone through the rules with a different viewpoint. Broadening your play experiences makes you a more proficient technical gamer.

Additionally, DMming for different people in different situations is absolutely priceless experience. You learn how to entertain, incorporate, and value so many different kinds of people. Every table is different! I've run God-only-knows how many tables of Harried in Hillsfar (a D&DAL intro adventure) and every one of them is different - but *each of them* teaches me something as a DM, or sharpens my skills. I can take that hard-won experience back to my home game, and it makes me a better DM.

Also, a home game can stagnate after some years, and it's nice to have a large pool of people to occasionally mix into the group.

I wouldn't advocate having D&DAL as your *only* RPG outlet. It's fun. It's good for meeting new people. It's good for having a reason to travel to conventions. It makes you a better gamer and DM. However, D&DAL isn't designed (I think?) to be a *replacement* for one's long standing home game - and that's okay! It's still good fun.

Paige

 

[Tyranthraxus]

THe issue being for the moment for me that AL is my ONLY rpg outlet.

 

[zingbobco000]

THe issue being for the moment for me that AL is my ONLY rpg outlet.

Same Tyran, same...

 

[Tyranthraxus]

Sorry, didnt make that want to sound like 'Woe is me'. Sometimes Im kinda sad that I lost my old playing group/friends to the dreaded Family and RL . Thats not it at all.

Im just a bit disappointed that a lot of people think that Organised Play is just the speedbump on the road to a 'REAL GAME' (HOME GAME) and that should be the desired goal.

I dont agree with that at all. Ive played in Long Standing Homegames (I got pidgeonholed as the DM for YEARS... years.. because everyone thought I was great at it (read: nobody else wanted to do it!). I can tell you know, DMing because other people expect you to dm and then taking flack because you decided you didnt want to do anymore is not fun.

I came to the realisation, I actually PREFER gaming with strangers. The less I know them the better. I cant anticipate how they will act, how their character will act, what spell their cleric might chose to cast, or what they will say in an intense debate with an npc. And I love that uncertainty. Dont get me wrong, after a while strangers become well known gaming buddies.. have no issue with that. But its gaming with strangers that does it for me. and OP is no better place to find such people.

Scorpienne above explained it all very well. I think people become better roleplayers when they do game with strangers/ the unknown. There is a certain comfort level to gaming with the same people week after week. You know sorta what they are going to do, you know that say Travis will always play a Rogue even when it says Fighter on his character sheet, you know Alan will always cast Bless the first round of combat. I call it the cycle of repetition in a way, which Is why I think Home games can burn out, but also really flourish when they inject a new player. There becomes a new dynamic.

 

[RadioKen]

I found that, under LFR at least, Organized Play became a haven for people who ran home campaigns and wanted a break from behind the screen. They weren't the only players coming to LFR nights at the game store, but they represented a large enough percentage that, when you added them to the players who for whatever reason weren't a good fit for GMing, it made the pool of willing-and-able GMs among the regular players pretty close to unsustainably small. This circumstance made both in-campaign incentives (i.e., XP) and out-of-campaign incentives (such as store credit) close to irrelevant--certainly less effective than peer pressure and appeals to good citizenship ended up being. Even then, it was a constant struggle to make two tables a week viable unless I was running one of them three weeks out of four.

 

[Alphastream]

The whole concept of AL just seems kind of poor to me. It's like taking all the long-term story building and companionship out of a campaign for the sake of regular games. It's like the difference between constantly dating new people and being in a long-term relationship.

I was brand new in Virginia with no gamer friends and I traveled too often to have a normal once-per-week campaign. Organized play saved my gaming life and I made incredible friendships. Despite moving to the other side of the country I still meet up with my old organized play friends every year at Gen Con and we talk and e-mail all the time. They are friends for life. And, here on the west coast I now have a whole new set of friends thanks to organized play. Then there is the community I've met online, the community of friends from judging at conventions, the people I have met through writing for organized play... the benefits have been amazing and lasting for me.

 

[RadioKen]

I was brand new in Virginia with no gamer friends and I traveled too often to have a normal once-per-week campaign. Organized play saved my gaming life and I made incredible friendships. Despite moving to the other side of the country I still meet up with my old organized play friends every year at Gen Con and we talk and e-mail all the time. They are friends for life. And, here on the west coast I now have a whole new set of friends thanks to organized play. Then there is the community I've met online, the community of friends from judging at conventions, the people I have met through writing for organized play... the benefits have been amazing and lasting for me.

As a coordinator I've been very happy to see players who come to my Public Play games start organizing home games together. I haven't had time to join many of these myself (one monthly game that fell apart about eight months after I joined), but I seem to have helped facilitate a lot of contacts there. I think the opportunity to see people's playstyles in action is certainly a bonus.