Dm trouble, who has the reigns?

[a_kirby_ball]

(oo my first thread, I am not certain this goes here, but I didn't see another place to post on this sort of topic)

Hilo, so here is what is up. I DM for a group of guys pretty steadily, however I have been out of the loop for a time when I was away. When I returned there was a new RPer in the group. Excited ot take the reigns I introduced a new RP system I had created off WhiteWolf that was DnD'ish but minimized rolls and just focused on having a good time. A kinda 'ice breaker' fun setting to rp when nothing else was prepared, or at least that was the idea.

This new RPer played a passive character that was focused on enlightenment. He explained to me briefly and with everyone eager to play we dived right in. Only three of them had shown up so it was going to be neat...I thought.

My focus on the adventure was character development and intereaction. I had no real plot except this vague idea of some 'goblin raid' in the grasslands. Basically I slowed the game down and were having them interact, and it worked great. They were having fun and 3 hours into the game they really had their characters down, but really wanted to get into some action involving possible goblin deaths.

So they charge off into the grass lands with this mission. The Baivlien family has offered to pay you to go out and investigate their residence in the grasslands. It was recently attacked by goblins, figure out where the goblins went and then report back. 3 things of importance are missing, a thimble, and sewing needle and a stone eye, all of which have the family seal on them.

Another NPC blindsides them before they leaving with information about how she suspects the Baivliens to be making up their claim of Goblin attackers and how it actually wasn't goblins but their own raiders. Reasoning? Baivlien can petition the court to pay a settlement for the damages done to their land since it is the kingdoms duty to protect his land.

So which seems to be more important? The mission given or the side info?

I didn't think it mattered, it was just for fun after all.

I was all ready, except I wasn't ready for the NEW Rper. I knew my other guys, and what they would do, but the monkey wrench came from the new guy.

Once they arrived at the house he:
1) Harrassed the stable women
2) broke into the rooms that had survived the attack
3) stole the key to the room he couldn't get into AND then broke all the windows ((because he didn't want them to think HE did it, this way the goblins could have done it O_O))
4) and finally he killed the only horse left in on the property


All of which he did in spite of the constant urging of the group and myself to stop. I finally ended the RP pissed off and done with listening to his rants of "But if the place wasn't robbed by goblins the STUFF we are looking for HAS to be around here, and they are HIDDING it from me"




I don't know what to do o_o I have avoided RPing with him since because I don't want another of my stories to be ruined by him, but the other guys want to RP with him and say 'he will be better'. o_o gah, what do I do?

 

[Tom Cashel]

Sounds to me like the new guy is testing the DM's boundaries, that's all.

Doesn't the Baivlien family have any mercenaries or men-at-arms? If not, maybe they've hired some by the time the characters return--I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate this character's actions. They'd most likely beat him down, throw him in jail, and deliver him to the local authorities.

My advice is this: instead of getting peeved in RL, just enforce some in-game consequences. The player is testing you, seeing how much he can get away with.

Give him your answer.

And here's another point-of-view, FWIW: keep in mind that this might be the type of player who needs some combat in his RPG sessions. After 3 hours of character development, I know that I'd be itching for a fight. If I got to the site of the adventure and found myself stymied for action, I might try to start something. My own PC in a Deadlands game threw a punch at the old lady running the gun shop, just last week. And it was completely due to frustration at the lack of action. Don't get me wrong--I had fun doing the role-playing, I even wrote a character journal about how guilty he felt for doing it...but when I need action, I need action.

 

[Crothian]

One minor thing and then on t o the major point. You say "ruin my stories" they aren't yoursm, they are the groups. The players are just as important to you, maybe more. They are the stars of the Play as it were.

I'd talk to the guy out of game. He's knew to the way you all game and the styles are not really meshing. So talk to him, and everyone else and try to reach an agreement.

Or if you want to you can have in game consquences. The other players do not just have to sit there and let him do whatever he wants. Its a group game, if one character disrupts the group then the group does not have to allow it to happen.

Best of luck, and keep us posted.

 

[Mark]

Some stuff here might help, now or later, so bookmark it -

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=47525

Oh, and don't worry about what someone does in-game (regardless if their motives are out-of-game), just dole out the consequences. Usually, all someone (often a manpulative player) is trying to do by loudly justifying their actions in such a way is to fish for more information than you are giving or are willing to give at the time. He is making definitive statements ("But if the place wasn't robbed by goblins the STUFF we are looking for HAS to be around here, and they are HIDDING it from me") to get you to flat out tell him what he really wants to know. Just smile and say, "Is that what you think? What about the rest of you? What will you do in-game to prove you are right or discover if you are wrong?" Then move on...

 

[Mercule]

The thing that most jumped out at me from you post was, "I don't want another of my stories to be ruined by him". Hold on there, Tex. You may set the stage and set things in motion, but you aren't the only one involved. I'm very much in the "DM as god" camp, but that does change PC free-will. It only means you set the "laws of physics" and are the final authority on the rules.

The players/PCs are free to do whatever they want with what you've set before them. That includes turning into mass murderers or B&E or what-have-you. If that's where they take it, then the world you've created should be reacting accordingly. So, what's the logical outcome of this PC's B&E routine? What's the follow through? I'm not sure I'd go so far as to "retaliate" using local law enforcement, but a normal reaction from the locals without any exaggeration should dissuade the PC from making a habit of this.

If not, you've got a couple of choices. 1) Establish a rule as GM that only certain types of characters are allowed into your game -- that is different from saying PCs may only act in a certain manner, BTW; 2) Run with it, a shady campaign can be fun for a bit, and the players might pick up some valuable tricks for future games.

 

[a_kirby_ball]

Thank you for your imput

First off, thank you Mark that is a great thread you linked me too. There is a lot of info there I will sort through slowly as I can digest it.

Tom you make a very valid point. I worry that he is just 'testing' my limits as it is such a waiste of my time and the other players. It isn't any fun to write up a whole idea and get all excited about it and then spend 5 hours explaining that "no you can't kill the orphan and still have your lay on hands, you worship Pelor, are you sure you want to be a pali?"

Hmm a bit of attention was paid toward the 'my story' comment. It is my story and my idea that I have written. When I DM I don't go in with a scribbled note of what may happen, I have planned adventure for them to run through. I don't understand your confusion on how that reflects a lack of character free will.

Umm example would be:

My story is about goblins and such in the plains. You don't have to go at all, you could go do other things, there are tons of things to do. Take your character and do whatever you want...raise horses for all I care. But when you start to destroy the fabric of the story you aren't enforcing your 'character free will' your being mean.


The game session I had lasted 8 hours and the vast majority of it was everyone in the party sighing and looking at him wondering what he is doing. Anyone can make mistakes, but shouldnt' you clue in to the group?

I like the idea of using in game retaliation, but I don't know how to use it effectively. They are secluded in the plains, it takes days to get to them with any real opposition. I tried to use the farmhand to get the gaurds and tell the family what they were up to. Before she got to the horse he had killed it and she had to run for her life. They know who is around the area...I know he isn't playing fair, but that doesn't mean I can, does it?

I just feel so stupid as a DM going "bah, there are gaurds there" when realistically by the way the game is going, there wouldn't be. Then again I didn't think he would take the opportunity to do so much damage .

Not to mention, I really don't want to focus on his behavior. While the rest of the group is investigating and trying to figure things out, should I really look at him and focus on correcting him? It just takes up so much play time.

 

[robberbaron]

How about having the Goblins (if there ARE actually goblins) attack the party as they are horning in on their turf. After all, they may have had their eyes on the horse themselves.
Or, if the goblins are better organised they might frame the party as being the raiders.

I know what you mean about it being your story. I get a bit defensive about that myself but, if the players want to do their own thing, all you can do is let them. If that means your planned adventure comes to naught, file it and use it later. I have lost count of the plotlines I have shelved because the players wanted to do something else. Eventually, I stopped having individual plotlines and settled for a fairly complicated "world" where stuff happens, whether or not the players take an interest.

Then again, you may want to ease back on the linearity and have several different things happening, all with life of their own - the ones the players don't look into can continue and grow and perhaps draw their attention later.


Old geezer going for a rest now.

 

[a_kirby_ball]

Oooo I like your idea about having the goblins frame them,, very interesting.