DM wanting to compensate for hight stats..

[FreeXenon]

Ok everyone... I am DM'ing a game for a party with all really base high stats: 18 17 15 13 12 12 which amounts to 44 pt characters....

=O I know!

We've been playing since 2E and we love high power and high stat games. I know there are balance issues and I am looking for advice on how to carefully compensate for the stats while not killing my new teeth-gnashing group.

The level 1 group consists of :

• Eladrin Sword Mage
• Human hybrid Ranger/Cleric [rogue muliticlass]
• Half Elf hybrid Fighter/Paladin [warlord multiclass]
• Minotaur hybrid Ranger/Fighter

We are defender heavy and capable of a lot of damage, which will make things interesting too. I have pretty good ideas on how to challenge them: stealth strikers, artillery and controllers, lots of minions + terrain, so I do not think I need help there. If I am missing options or concerns feel free to let me know.

My first thoughts are treat them as a level higher as far as how tough creatures should be and treat their group as being 1 larger as far as the number or creatures and XP budget. So, for their first encounter as a base treat them as a 2nd level party of 5 instead of a 1st level party of 4.

What do you think? I am also thinking to give defensive items first before weapons since with the increase in monster level it will be a little easier to hit the party and they do not have a lot of healing. They are not going to need so much help hitting as they are taking/resisting damage.

Thanks

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

You'll notice more difference at higher levels as the uniformly high stats mean for instance that the characters can qualify for practically any feat, etc. It also means they have high skill bonuses, which makes anything related to using skills somewhat easier.

The differences aren't huge and probably don't amount to a level's worth overall, but groups have a pretty decent range of power in 4e anyway just due to variations in how well the players build their characters and how good they are at integrating their tactics etc. You'll always have to make a certain amount of accommodation for this with any group even with standard PCs. At paragon and epic tiers you may notice a bit more difference as the higher ability bonuses and some of the specialization feats and things can be piled on more easily. Even so I'm sure you can still use published adventures with them, you MAY just need to add a monster or something now and then.

 

[fba827]

I don't know if I would treat them as 'higher level' as that could lead to odd situations where you have creatures that have defenses too high to hit without lucky dice or creatures that have no way of -not- hitting the PCs even on the crappiest of rolls.

But treating them as an extra PC for the purposes of budgeting isn't a bad idea.

Having all the stats provide around +1 or so bonus higher than 'assumed' is not as big an effect as one primary or secondary stat getting a +4 higher bonus than assumed. so don't overcompensate.
I think after a session or two you'll quickly realize how much you really can push them.

I don't know what your typical style/encounter rhythm is, but in case it needs to be said, i would avoid the one encounter per day situation (aka the 15 minute adventure day). your pcs won't break a sweat, try and find ways to get multiple encounters in before the pcs can extended rest (without making it seemed too forced anyway).

just my thoughts anyway, your experiences may vary

 

[mkill]

It's not going to make much difference. Your group will have +1 to hit compared to other groups, that's pretty much it. To really turn that into a benefit, they'd need a strong leader and clearly assigned striker and defender.

However, in your group 3 of 4 PCs are Defenders, which is pretty ridiculous. Instead of one PC drawing attacks, everyone jealously keeps "his" monster.
The most important tactic in 4th edition is to focus fire and quickly reduce enemy numbers. The defender draws monster attention, everyone else takes down one squishy after another with coordinated attacks. That's not going to happen here.
Your party looks very much like a 3rd edition party of heavy multiclassers where everyone wants to be everything. That's not effective.

If you want to hand this party an easy defeat, ambush the Cleric (I assume he's ranged) with skirmishers / lurkers. Then hit the minotaur and the human with status effects like daze. Kill one first while the other is unable to help.
Ignore the Swordmage and kill him last. For him to do anything, the Human and Minotaur have to respect his mark and not overwrite it. If he's shielding, he still can't prevent status effects. The main reason to kill him last is his high AC and low damage output.

Use swarms and minions as the group has no controller and is weak in area attacks. They'll also have a hard time with flyers, teleporters etc.

 

[Moon_Goddess]

I'm gonna say with that crazy class make up, don't worry about it, they won't be super effective, the high stats will probably just bring them back to where a properly built party should be.

 

[Obryn]

Honestly, I don't think those stats will have a major impact on your game. It may make a slight difference on HPs, surges, and your "off" defense, and you might qualify for a few more feats, but IMO it's not nearly a level's (or an extra character's) worth of XP.

Additionally, you have a lot of strange hybrids there. Generally speaking, I've found those are a bit weaker than regular straight-classed characters.

-O

 

[FreeXenon]

@Mkill: Brutal. =O

Thanks so far... hmmmm... it seems consensus is not to treat them as a level higher. OK I will start with just treating their party as being one larger then they are.

Encounters: I really like to have fairly intense fights, and yea, I do not cater to the 15 adventuring day. 4E characters are so much more durable and have much more lower level power (at wills/encounters) available to them than in previous editions.

I am first thinking of driving them pretty hard on their first day of adventuring so that they can have a good feel for their capabilities and how long they can go. Give them an early encounter or 2 that they will want to spend their dailies on and then have a few not as tough encounters that they can use their encounters/at-wills on

Healing: I am thinking of having a bit more of their treasure being healing oriented, or perhaps having a healer companion character go with so they have a little more healing, but I am not sure how I feel about that. With a boat load of Defenders they may not really need it because they will have the AC and HP to last. Their Second Winds, and 1 Encounter and Daily heal will allow them to last, although healing through the day will take longer with only the second wind available.

PC Builds: I totally agree on the suboptimality of the Hybrid builds. As mentioned, their stats may help to compensate for that.

The PC's are remakes of our favorite 2E characters of auld, so yea, their build can seem kind of strange. Capturing the right feel required some hybrid/multiclass craziness but we feel that these combo's accurately captured the spirit of the previous incarnation of the character.

 

[Garthanos]

Mobility introduces some of the most fun to the game (for every one)

If the Minotaur was built as Barbarian instead you would have a nice fast moving and interesting to play striker without heavy flavor change of the Fighter/Ranger.
Or he could go straight Ranger, if he doesn't want the nature skill Dungeoneering is an alternative that is broadly skinnable ...

The Swordmage is the most mobile of the Defenders anyway and a better secondary Fighter than primary... so when you have more than one defender he is a good one.

Having squishies is good because then the defenders can really get a feel for there values. As a DM even with a group of 4 you could bring in a sorceress(Warlock) - or even a warlord princess who needs them to body guard or something similar, the latter could be handing out extra attacks and lots of things without stealing player thunder very nicely.

 

[Shin Okada]

I too think those high stats will not bump up the performance of your PCs much. No matter how high the total ability scores are, the main stats is still 18.

IMHO, the most significant deference mey be that hybrid characters and multi-classed characters gains slightly more, comparing to single-classed characters. But even that deference is not so big in 4e, as even single-class characters have at least 2 or more important stats.

 

[FreeXenon]

@Garthanos That Barabarian idea might work for that player. He has a tendency to play barbarians.... I will recommend that to him. Good ideas there. =)