DMG II Preview in Game Trade Magazine

[BryonD]

Y'all are missing the points - first, just because there is a gap doesn't mean that it has to be filled, cost or no cost. That's just boring and repetitious.

Second, the larger point is that a flaming sword isn't enough - you need a flaming burst sword! When does it end? Or does it?

I'm sorry, it's not my intention to start a flame war here, but I'm sick to death of the present design philosophy of D&D. I'm so done with this stupid game. Please ignore my personal frustration as I go in search of a fantasy RPG that I actually enjoy playing. :\

So the point of "upping the power level" had nothing to do with upping the power level, but rather with "boring and repetitious". I'll have to admit that I certainly missed that point. My bad for thinking the words you used had anything to do with what you were failing to say.

And, seriously, to say "when does it end?" regarding a +2 ability in D&D is either so blatantly tollish or so completely ignorant of the entire game philosophy, that, either way, it really doesn't even merit thought as a reasonable critic.

 

[Glyfair]

Man, you need more practice on the quality rants.
Acidic burst won't up the power level any more than fiery burst does.

If anything I find its existance so obvious that it seems a waste of space to print it and a poor marketing choice to show that as what DMGIII brings to the table.

I suspect they choose this page because it had a nice cross-section of abilities. It has a variation ability (Acidic Burst vs. Flaming Burst), a "legendary" ability (Air Elemental Mastery) and a 3rd new ability (Brutal Surge).

It's not like they created these pages for the magazine, these are 4 actual pages from the DMG II. They had to work with what they had.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Y'all are missing the points - first, just because there is a gap doesn't mean that it has to be filled, cost or no cost. That's just boring and repetitious.

Second, the larger point is that a flaming sword isn't enough - you need a flaming burst sword! When does it end? Or does it?

So what would be wrong with ignoring it, and only using what you like? D&D is pretty customizable that way. Does it invalidate the older rules in some way that escapes me?

 

[The Shaman]

So the point of "upping the power level" had nothing to do with upping the power level, but rather with "boring and repetitious". I'll have to admit that I certainly missed that point. My bad for thinking the words you used had anything to do with what you were failing to say.

And, seriously, to say "when does it end?" regarding a +2 ability in D&D is either so blatantly tollish or so completely ignorant of the entire game philosophy, that, either way, it really doesn't even merit thought as a reasonable critic.

It's my usual policy to ignore posts and posters like these as too trivial for comment, but I'm in such a foul mood this morning that I'm not going to let such a display pass.

Yes, upping the power level is a part of boring and repetitious - every iteration of the game, every accessory comes with the same thing: new this, improved that, more powerful the other.

I've played D&D since 1977. I've seen these iterations first hand. Every generation of the game has had them - the supplements to OD&D and AD&D, the kits books to 2e, and now the flood of more of the same and then some with 3e. The difference is the game has become less fun to play for it - as a GM I used to be able to write a complete adventure in a couple of hours, and now I spend that same time generating stats for a couple of mid- to high level NPCs or monsters with class levels. Instead of roleplaying the difference between a noble knight and a vicious gladiator (both Fighter 7 with identical stats), we get Fighter 4/Knight PrC 3 and Fighter 3/Rogue 1/Gladiator 3 - no imagination necessary anymore! Instead of a flaming sword, we get a weapon that also does Xd6 damage on a confirmed critical because more and flashier damage is obviously so much better for the game.

When I first started playing 3.0, I was pleased with many of the changes to the game: the extra mechanics seemed like a boon to customizing the game. Over time I came to realize that the added customization became an end in itself: contrary to what many others say, there were no powergamers in earlier editions - a fighter was a fighter was a fighter, and the only way to make one more powerful than another was to either cheat on the ability rolls or get loaded down with magic. IMAGINATION made the differences real, not numbers on a page, and the more I played D&D the more I saw the imagination, the real magic of D&D, sucked out of the game, replaced by the six new prestige classes ('cause if we make a dragon warrior, we also have to have a dragon wizard and a dragon trickster and a dragon singer and a dragon-blood caster and...and...and...) and an acidic, sonic, and cold bursting sword 'cause those haven't been covered yet and we cannot under any circumstances leave such a stone unturned.

Reading about how mechanics are necessary to make a character concept 'work', how this feat combo and that class combo work best with the other race in order to get the best BAB, how those stones just gotta be turned so writers can feed their kids...it's just killing me anymore to see something that I once enjoyed so much be turned into such a highly polished steaming turd.

I know I'm swimming against the current: the game is more popular than it's ever been and the business model is a success. The success of something doesn't make it good, however.

I don't expect anyone to be able to make sense of these ramblings, nor do I expect anyone to agree. But if you want to call me a troll for expressing a thought that runs counter to the mainstream, then you're just a tool and you're cordially invited to bugger yourself.

 

[Felon]

Oh, just you try to ignore it! Then they'll make an even bigger burst--a Greater Burst they'll call it! And then after that, like, a Mega-Burst, or something. Don't you fools understand? Before you know it, there'll be a burst so damn big it will DESTROY ALL LIFE AS WE KNOW IT!!!!!!!!!!!

And how boring is that?

 

[Felon]

Instead of roleplaying the difference between a noble knight and a vicious gladiator (both Fighter 7 with identical stats), we get Fighter 4/Knight PrC 3 and Fighter 3/Rogue 1/Gladiator 3 - no imagination necessary anymore!

Sooo, diversity makes characters "boring and repetitious", and homogenity makes characters imaginative. Ah, I see. You're from Bizarro-World.

there were no powergamers in earlier editions - a fighter was a fighter was a fighter, and the only way to make one more powerful than another was to either cheat on the ability rolls or get loaded down with magic.

Exactly. If you were a fighter, you loaded up on magic items. That's how you powergamed.

I don't expect anyone to be able to make sense of these ramblings, nor do I expect anyone to agree.

Because you are rambling incoherently, not making the effort to be clear about things like exactly how all fighters being ubiquitous and devoid of options lent itself to imagination, people are not likely to agree with you.

More conciseness, less drama.

 

[The Shaman]

Sooo, diversity makes characters "boring and repetitious", and homogenity makes characters imaginative. Ah, I see. You're from Bizarro-World.

Spoken like a true 3e mechanophile.

The diversity was in how we played the characters, not in the numbers on the page. We didn't need stats to make our characters interesting and unique, something that is rapidly becoming a lost art from what I see among gamers.

 

[Shazman]

I think that he's trying to say that (in his mind at least) mechanics are taking the place of role-plying and flavor? Listen, if I have an two fighters, both totally melee oriented, and say fighter 1 is the best archer around cause I say so and he's always taling about his archery skill, but he has no archery feats to speak of, that's daydreaming ,not role-playing. If you have trouble with players not role-playing, that's not the fault of the rules or Xrules supplement. But the main issus is that you are obvioulsy fed up with D&D. So try Castles and Crusades or something else instead of trying to win a losing arguement.

 

[haiiro]

The diversity was in how we played the characters, not in the numbers on the page. We didn't need stats to make our characters interesting and unique, something that is rapidly becoming a lost art from what I see among gamers.

Seeping generalizations like the one in your second sentence pretty much show that you're just trying to rile people up. The point you make in your first sentence, though, is interesting -- and if you expanded on it without telling people to go bugger themselves, it could lead to a worthwhile discussion.

 

[Darkness]

Let's be nice, guys. Also, if you're very frustrated/upset/whatever, maybe step away from this for now and come back when you feel better again. Thanks.