DMG recommended monster stats compared to MM monsters

[jkohlhepp]

Hello. I'm trying to adjust a monsters level for the first time. I want to use a Bulette in an encounter. My 6 PCs are 4th level so I thought I'd bring the Bulette down to 6th or 7th level. So I am looking at pages 184-185 of the DMG to try and figure out the right numbers. But the current stats for the Bulette (MM 38) don't seem to add up to what the DMG says it should be. Here are some examples:

- According to DMG an elite lurker should have hit points of (6+Con+(lvl*6))*2. By my calculations that means a level 9 elite lurker with 22 Con should have (6+22+54)*2=164. Yet the Bulette has 204. Perhaps this is because the additional "plus twice it's constitution score" was errataed out from the DMG but the Bullette is still including it? Yet that should put the HP at 208 not 204, but it's close.

- According to the DMG an elite lurker should have an AC of Level + 14 + 2, which would be 25 at level 9. And yet the Bulette has a 27.

- Initiative bonus should be +4, and yet the Bullet has a +7 with only a 13 Dex. Shouldn't it be it's Dex bonus +4 for a total of +5?

Basically things just aren't adding up. Should I not expect them to? Do the monster stats in the DMG not match up with the MM? Is the MM2 any better? Am I missing some errata?

What is the best way I should go about adjust the Bulette's level to make it an appropriate challenge? Are there any tools online somewhere that aid with this?

Thanks for the help.

 

[Dalzig]

In short: No, monsters will not match up to the guidelines for monster making in the DMG. As long as you get close-ish, you're doing good enough.

To change a Level 9 Bulette to a Level 6 Bulette, you would:

1. Reduce Attack values by 3
2. Reduce Defenses (including AC) by 3
3. Reduce Skills (including Initiative) by 1 or 2
4. Reduce Hit Points by 48
5. Reduce Damage on each attack by 1 or 2

That will probably get you close. Tweak as you see necessary.

Edit; It might also help to notice that the Bulette is a skirmisher, not a lurker. That might make the math a bit closer.

 

[Jhaelen]

Basically things just aren't adding up. Should I not expect them to? Do the monster stats in the DMG not match up with the MM? Is the MM2 any better? Am I missing some errata?

As Dalzig already mentioned, you're not missing anything. Expect monsters from official sources to be different from the DMG guidelines. The guidelines are intended for you to be used if you want to design a monster from scratch.

What is the best way I should go about adjust the Bulette's level to make it an appropriate challenge? Are there any tools online somewhere that aid with this?

Just decrease the bulette's level as described on DMG page 174 and you should be fine.

Asmor's D&D Tools may be what you're looking for if you'd like to try more complicated stuff, design encounters, etc.

 

[jkohlhepp]

In short: No, monsters will not match up to the guidelines for monster making in the DMG. As long as you get close-ish, you're doing good enough.

To change a Level 9 Bulette to a Level 6 Bulette, you would:

1. Reduce Attack values by 3
2. Reduce Defenses (including AC) by 3
3. Reduce Skills (including Initiative) by 1 or 2
4. Reduce Hit Points by 48
5. Reduce Damage on each attack by 1 or 2

That will probably get you close. Tweak as you see necessary.

Edit; It might also help to notice that the Bulette is a skirmisher, not a lurker. That might make the math a bit closer.

Ah yes I didn't notice that it is a Skirmisher that does make things slightly better. I assumed Lurker because it can burrow and what-not. I have a couple more questions: you say to reduce skills and initiative? Why is that? DMG p.174 doesn't mention dropping skills or ability scores as far as I can tell.

Also, I should drop the things damage by 1-2, but I should leave the dice the same? So it should be 2d6+5? According to the dmg chart on DMG p. 185 the recommended medium damage for a level 9 creature is 2d6+X but for level 6 it is 1d10+X. So should I drop the bulette's damage to 1d10+5? Or would you just leave it alone?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Kordeth]

Ah yes I didn't notice that it is a Skirmisher that does make things slightly better. I assumed Lurker because it can burrow and what-not. I have a couple more questions: you say to reduce skills and initiative? Why is that? DMG p.174 doesn't mention dropping skills or ability scores as far as I can tell.

Skills and initiative are keyed off of the monster's level, just like PCs. If you drop its level, those numbers drop, too.

 

[Dalzig]

Ah yes I didn't notice that it is a Skirmisher that does make things slightly better. I assumed Lurker because it can burrow and what-not. I have a couple more questions: you say to reduce skills and initiative? Why is that? DMG p.174 doesn't mention dropping skills or ability scores as far as I can tell.

More of a logical step than a guideline presented. Skills have a +1/2 level (maybe a full level) added in, so you should probably reduce them if you reduce the level far enough.

Also, I should drop the things damage by 1-2, but I should leave the dice the same? So it should be 2d6+5? According to the dmg chart on DMG p. 185 the recommended medium damage for a level 9 creature is 2d6+X but for level 6 it is 1d10+X. So should I drop the bulette's damage to 1d10+5? Or would you just leave it alone?

It's really up to you. The difference between 2d6+5 and 1d10+5 is 2 damage on average. The "reduce damage by 1 or 2" is more of an estimate to quickly churn out monsters. That's one reason why the guidelines don't work if you change a monster's level by more than 5.

Remember, when you are DM'ing, the only way to be wrong is if no one is having fun. As long as that happens, who cares about everything else?

 

[Dr_Ruminahui]

In addition to the rules not working so well if you drop creatures by 5+ levels, my own experience is that dropping a monster from one tier to another (so, a level 12 monster to level 8) does tend to leave the monster being too powerful, especially if you start with on monster not from MM1 (post MM1 monsters are, from my somewhat limited experience, more powerful than MM1 monsters).

 

[Dalzig]

In addition to the rules not working so well if you drop creatures by 5+ levels, my own experience is that dropping a monster from one tier to another (so, a level 12 monster to level 8) does tend to leave the monster being too powerful, especially if you start with on monster not from MM1 (post MM1 monsters are, from my somewhat limited experience, more powerful than MM1 monsters).

Yeah, Level 11 is a huge jump in the power level of a party. You should tred lightly when crossing the tier barriers.