Dming Controllers

[eternalsandwyrm]

OK so i have been running 4th edition for a while now , long enough that i have wittle out most of the rules that make no sense or i don't like but im having a huge issue with controllers, THEY ARE RIGGED. i had to ban druid until i can figured out how to deal with them. i modified my minions so they can 2 hit before they die. does any one have any advice, cuz i have a wizard in my most current party and i don't want the character get as out of control as my druid did in the last game.

 

[MarkB]

Can you be a little more specific about the issues? If controllers are disrupting your guys' plans and taking out multiple minions, then they are working as intended - that's their job. But if they're truly making battles a cakewalk, there may be steps you can take to mitigate that short of banning classes.

 

[Balesir]

We haven't had any issues with a Wizard (up until level 22 so far - I am the DM); maybe if you say what the issues you are seeing are and what rules changes you have made?

 

[Will Doyle]

With certain party makeups, minions can be fairly ineffective if played by the book. Both *defenders* in my paragon party have powers that can vaporize minions that start their turn adjacent - and that's not even taking the controller into account (who eats minions for breakfast every turn).

I still use minions, but I tend to throw them at the party in tides - e.g. a reinforcements card on the initiative order which generates more each round until X is done, or monsters that generate minions as part of their attacks. I certainly wouldn't award xp for each minion - just award a single amount for defeating the bunch.

 

[TerraDave]

I have done minions in waves and various two hit versions (just did both with some 21st level characters). You can also do immunities and even damage resistance, which means some more rolling, but can also make things more interesting. Death effects (exploding, etc) can also be good. More conventional is just mixing in non-minions and environmental effects.

Part of the fun of minions is that the players can take out bunches of them....and you can attack with bunches of them. All else fails, just use more.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

OK so i have been running 4th edition for a while now , long enough that i have wittle out most of the rules that make no sense or i don't like but im having a huge issue with controllers, THEY ARE RIGGED. i had to ban druid until i can figured out how to deal with them. i modified my minions so they can 2 hit before they die. does any one have any advice, cuz i have a wizard in my most current party and i don't want the character get as out of control as my druid did in the last game.

I like orc minions. Give them Savage Demise. PC kills them? They charge the PC! Minion brutes hit far above their "weight". Even auto-damage won't stop them.

 

[Silvarion]

I like orc minions. Give them Savage Demise. PC kills them? They charge the PC! Minion brutes hit far above their "weight". Even auto-damage won't stop them.

True.

In my campaigns, I use something similar to the one below:

Orc Savage
Medium natural humanoid
Level 5 Minion Brute

HP 1; a missed attack never damages a minion. Initiative +3
AC 17, Fortitude 16, Reflex 15, Will 14 Perception+1
Speed 6, +2 speed when charging Low-light vision

Standard Actions

Handaxe (weapon) At-Will
Attack: Melee 1 (one creature); +10 vs. AC
Hit: 8 damage, or 12 with a charge attack.

Handaxe (weapon) At-Will
Attack: Ranged 5 (one creature); +10 vs. AC
Hit: 6 damage.


Triggered Actions

Savage Demise (Encounter)
Trigger: The orc drops to 0 hit points.
Effect (Free Action): The orc takes a standard action.


Str 16 (+5) Dex 13 (+3) Wis 9 (+1)
Con 13 (+3) Int 8 (+1) Cha 8 (+1)
Alignment chaotic evil Languages Common, Giant
Equipment: handaxe x5, hide armor.

 

[eternalsandwyrm]

My issue was specifically with druid. i mean some of the debuffs the class has can lock down an entire fight, to the point where i have to cheat just to even attack the party. i havent seen a problem with the wiz in my party yet but i want to avoid the same problem if i can. druid has tons of surges but never really needs to be right in combat. low dmg but every debuff makes me want to just kill the druid first every time.

 

[keterys]

Druid is not one of the stronger controllers, and if the problem is with minions I feel like the anger may be misplaced.

Can you cite specific problems and particular powers?

 

[eternalsandwyrm]

flame seed
twisting vines
savage frenzy
vine serpents
since i made minions 2 hit kills they are not the issue, it how the druid locks every thing down all the time.
in one fight in our last game the druid literally tied up the boss the entire fight.