Dming Conundrum - Dice and RP

[Jurble]

So i have a conundrum id like to hear your thoughts on, about how to play the game with a group.

For my group id really like to encourage RP as much as possible and dissuade metagaming.

I see a big conundrum here when it comes to rolling dice. When a player throws his dice, and gets a hit on a 17 but a miss on a 16 he immediately gets meta knowledge, which can affect how he plays.

It also means they throw their dice, realise if they hit or not, and then as DM i will throw in some RP "you slash at him and blah blah" etc but its really like an addendum rather than something the players are hanging onto (since they already know the outcome).

The other option is to either hide roll results from the players, or roll the die myself. That way when a character attacks, he is waiting on the RP words to find out if he hit the monster/whatever rather than the description being a "lets keep this RP by adding a few words".

At the same time, it is fun to roll your own dice and to feel like your actually in control somewhat.

What do you all think of this? How do you run your games? How do some people encourage the RP side while givign the players the fun of throwing their own dice?

thanks all

 

[billd91]

I don't generally see a problem between gaining some metaknowledge about the exact probabilities and having the player RP learning more about his opponent in general. You miss with one pretty good swing (the 16) and hit with one that's a little better (17). You're learning that you have to bring your best chances in order to land a telling blow. If the PC can take advantage of that, he's playing smart and cagey. The player just has information a lot more precise than the PC does.

As far as describing the results, wait until they roll damage and then give them an idea of how badly they hurt the creature based on how badly the damage injured the creature.

Not every aspect of the game has to be the height of role-playing, sometimes a little bit of description is enough rather than reams of purple prose.

 

[Hairy Minotaur]

You could always say the blows clangs off the opponent's breastplate for a 15-18 roll, and then only record damage if they rolled a 17 or 18 but make them roll damage for even a 15 roll.

I do this with creatures with DR for my group. They have no idea how much damage they're not doing.

 

[Crothian]

Players figuring out what the AC is never really a problem.

 

[Hussar]

billd91 has it IMO. Yes, rp is a great thing, but, dragging out EVERY attack with it is not exactly a lot of fun. Deal with the highlights and just let the game be a game sometimes.

 

[wedgeski]

A DM of mine once tried to hide every dice roll from us. Predictably, it slowed the game to a crawl, resulted in a lot of bored and frustrated players, and collapsed in a heap after a couple of sessions. IMO the dice have got to roll on both sides of the screen, except where tension is dramatically increased (the party thinks they're surrounded and you ask for someone's Spot bonus, for example).

 

[Michael Silverbane]

I see a big conundrum here when it comes to rolling dice. When a player throws his dice, and gets a hit on a 17 but a miss on a 16 he immediately gets meta knowledge, which can affect how he plays.

I don't actually think of this as meta-knowledge, but as actual, in-character knowledge. If the player sees that he hits when the die comes up a 17, but misses when it comes up a 16, then his character knows that he has to really put forth his best effort to get past his opponent's defenses. He knows that the opponent is probably too tough, too fast, or too well trained to be easily defeated. He knows that if he doesn't get some serious backup, he's in for a world of hurt.

If a player's dice rolls are coming up above average, then his character is, "in the zone," or, "on top of his game." If a player's dice rolls are coming up below average, then his character is, "in a slump," or, "lacking focus."

Later
silver

 

[Kastil]

If that really affects the way the player interacts in the game, they prefer to just roll the dice. Although I play mostly online chat-based games now, I still like the flavor even if I missed. I've low level games where I need to roll a 18 or better just to hit. It's frustrating but I don't change what my character would do with that fact. If he's a character that hacks and slashes even when the odds are against him, I play it that way.

I personally like descriptive dialogue whether you hit or miss. It brings the realism into the game.

 

[shilsen]

I don't actually think of this as meta-knowledge, but as actual, in-character knowledge. If the player sees that he hits when the die comes up a 17, but misses when it comes up a 16, then his character knows that he has to really put forth his best effort to get past his opponent's defenses. He knows that the opponent is probably too tough, too fast, or too well trained to be easily defeated. He knows that if he doesn't get some serious backup, he's in for a world of hurt.

If a player's dice rolls are coming up above average, then his character is, "in the zone," or, "on top of his game." If a player's dice rolls are coming up below average, then his character is, "in a slump," or, "lacking focus."

Later
silver

What he said. The PCs are usually people who spend their lives fighting all sorts of enemies. It should take only a few seconds of combat for them to work out the quality of their opponents.

 

[Cor Azer]

You could always say the blows clangs off the opponent's breastplate for a 15-18 roll, and then only record damage if they rolled a 17 or 18 but make them roll damage for even a 15 roll.

I do this with creatures with DR for my group. They have no idea how much damage they're not doing.

I pretty much do that too - at least, I do for the important combats.