DMing large groups. (Halp)

when I had players who had no tactical sense or care, I talked to them and they took directions from the squad sgt. could be Jenny dagger the second rank this turn then tumble between the orge's legs.
Since this is new to you and you new to them I suggest level 1-3 adventures. And some pregens.
 

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Ignoring that you just wrote a treatise on how to deal with it...and same damn fine suggestions I might add...you kind of proved my point. ;)

Not really (but thanks for the compliments!). :) The "complicated" stuff happens at prep time - having good notes done beforehand is all that's really needed, and that will be true regardless of how many players you're running for.

I use initiative cards regardless of how many players I have, so that's not a change required for large groups; it just makes large groups easier to manage.

I am at a point where I can make up relatively balanced monsters stats for a given level of PCs, so I can wing a combat if I need to - but new DMs aren't at that point, yet, so they'll need to do the prep work anyway.

It certainly sounds like some DM's have a better handle on large squad combat than others, but my point is not whether the DM can handle it, but will players get bored between their chances to roll a die...miss..and then wait some more.

This part makes less sense to me.

I am proposing a combat with, essentially, badguys equal to the number of PCs. By doing so, I have reduced the number of and the complexity of the decisions that the DM will be making, vastly speeding up his turns.

Additionally, I am doing so by making "big monsters" which have [largely] the offense and defense of "little monsters," meaning that PCs will not be missing quite as often. Additionally, doing so allows those Power Attacking-brutes the chance to pump some attack bonus into damage and still hit reasonably well, while at the same time reducing their ability to quickly end a combat (because of the higher chances for "wasted damage").

This avoids the chief problems attendant to using a smaller number of tougher monsters: 1) that unless you're really careful, you'll end up with monsters who have defenses that the PCs cannot yet overcome, and attacks against which the PCs cannot adequately defend, because the monster is designed around fighting characters two or three levels higher; and 2) the action economy favors the team with more actions, leading to PCs being able to dogpile a small number of relatively more powerful monsters and steamroll them, resulting in anti-climactic fights.

But a question, in large groups, 5-8, do people find that one or two people still try to or end up running all the combat manuevers? I find the women in our group couldn't care less about the tactical game. They are happy to roll dice, but they leave all the tactical stuff to the others.

Quite the contrary, in my experience.

In the "social" and "exploration" side of things, it's really, really easy to have the party follow the lead of one or a few characters. This goes double for large groups, where long chats about which way to go in a dungeon just slows things down even more.

Unlike social and exploration, though, the D&D rules have a built-in baseline of combat effectiveness. It's possible to build a character who has almost nothing to add to a social scene (consider most Fighters, for instance), while it is nearly impossible to create a character with no combat ability. In my current Pathfinder game, ferinstance, we've got a player playing a rogue who is almost completely spec'd away from combat; he's a dedicated "face." And yet, even he attacks at +5 for 1d4+2d6-1 damage when he's flanking.

Accordingly, combat encounters are almost where it is easiest while playing D&D to get everyone involved.

And as far as the sex of your players, in my group the three women are playing a Barbarian, a Paladin, and a Fighter, and are the ones most likely to push for more combat. :D
 
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This part makes less sense to me.

I am proposing a combat with, essentially, badguys equal to the number of PCs. By doing so, I have reduced the number of and the complexity of the decisions that the DM will be making, vastly speeding up his turns.
I have confused the issue by talking about the logistics nightmare for the DM. But when I said DM, I meant for the game itself. Sek says he's been DMing for what 10 years? So the concern isn't on his side, but on the players. The players are the ones who are can potentially become confused and bored if the combat involves too many pieces. Look, it's a lot easer for new players to pay attention to the one Ogre versus 15 kobolds. Figuring out who goes where and who does what can take a long time for new players...especially if they don't read the rule books and aren't familiar with all the combat options. How many of Sek's playeres are going to know the difference between Full Round Actions, Standard Actions, Move Actions, and which ones allow for 5-foot steps and whether the 5-foot step invokes an AoO?

I would ease the players into to the complexities of large scale combat rather than bombard them with it. As they become more proficient with the rules, they'll make quicker decisions.



Additionally, I am doing so by making "big monsters" which have [largely] the offense and defense of "little monsters," meaning that PCs will not be missing quite as often. ***This avoids the chief problems attendant to using a smaller number of tougher monsters: 1) that unless you're really careful, you'll end up with monsters who have defenses that the PCs cannot yet overcome, and attacks against which the PCs cannot adequately defend, because the monster is designed around fighting characters two or three levels higher; and
That's debatable. There are plenty of large scale monsters that don't have great AC's. In addition, one large target provides a nearly guaranteed flanking bonus for everyone. Not true with separate targets. Also, the DM can always make the larger targets weaker and award less XP. Again, the point is to simplify the combat when you have lots of PC's who are new to the game. The DM has the complete discretion in modifying the monster so as not to overpower the part. But making it one target instead of six, I think you're doing the players a favor.


Additionally, doing so allows those Power Attacking-brutes the chance to pump some attack bonus into damage and still hit reasonably well, while at the same time reducing their ability to quickly end a combat (because of the higher chances for "wasted damage").
At 1st level, there isn't going to be a lot of wasted damage. What I have found is that PA and Cleave result in one or two guys doing most of the killing with weak individual targets. I mean the ratio is like 5 to 1...with the 1 going to the entire rest of the party. I had a party with a Fighter, Rogue, Ranger, Monk, and Cleric...and the Fighter had PA and Cleave and easily killed 80% of the monsters. It wasn't a problem for the group, but I'm just pointing out my experience with weak/soft targets in large group combat.

***2) the action economy favors the team with more actions, leading to PCs being able to dogpile a small number of relatively more powerful monsters and steamroll them, resulting in anti-climactic fights.
By that logic, six players against one or two targets provide an even bigger advantange in terms of "action economy"



Quite the contrary, in my experience.

In the "social" and "exploration" side of things, it's really, really easy to have the party follow the lead of one or a few characters. This goes double for large groups, where long chats about which way to go in a dungeon just slows things down even more.
I tihnk you misconstrued my point. I'm not talking about whether people want to fight, I'm talking about how involved various people get in deciding the tactical maneuvers in combat. Everybody wants to roll the d20 and then roll damage. Not everyone wants to figure out who goes where, whether they fight Defensively or take a 5-foot stop to block so and so.


Accordingly, combat encounters are almost where it is easiest while playing D&D to get everyone involved.
Yes. But the question is to what extent and as I've said...players, particularly the women in our group, get bored while long discussions ensue about the specifics of the tactics...just like people get bored when there is a social scene and they aren't involved in the IC discussion.

And as far as the sex of your players, in my group the three women are playing a Barbarian, a Paladin, and a Fighter, and are the ones most likely to push for more combat. :D
Well, that certainly explains a lot. In your situation, I can totally see why you would throw lots of targets at them. This gives them an IC way to compare killing and effectiviness where a single large target would undermine such a comparison. There is no doubt, the classes being played and the people who are playing them will undoubtedly determine what type of encounters the group will find most enjoyable. One of our females is a Bard with an 8 Str. She frequently complains that the battles take too long...the other is the Fighter with PA and Cleave who just wants to roll damage and has no problem letting someone else tell where to go and what to do.
 
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